Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 17 March 2011
17 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Bus Services Regulation
For the avoidance of doubt, the question of bus regulation was not ever in the SNP manifesto.
In the debate, we are trying to look forward to find ways to ensure that passengers get a better service. Having been on the Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change Committee for the past four years, I am well aware that we can probably make the best progress on better regulation and the integration of services.
If you do not mind, Presiding Officer, I will stray slightly from the subject of debate. In many places, bus, rail, ferry and air services are not often linked up. In my region, it is very important that they are. Part of the problem is the different regulatory arrangement for each of those modes of transport. In looking forward, we need to find a much better way in which to do that job. The committee has said so, but I have not heard a call for better regulation of that sort reflected in the debate and yet the issue affects many of my constituents across the Highlands and Islands, and far wider than that.
Another set of better regulation that has to be worked in relates to commercial bus transport providers and other needs in my area. As the “Our Rural Future” report that has just been published points out:
“In rural areas, Demand Responsive and Community Transport can be vital transport services, and we would encourage Local Authorities to look proactively at enhancing both the provision and the coordination of existing schemes.”
As we have heard, the removal of ring fencing and the transfer of responsibility to local authorities means that they can choose not to make such transport a priority. In my area, Highland Council has seen a reduction over the past couple of years but it has chosen to spend around £50,000 on community transport. If community transport is seen as a priority for improvement, it ought to be given a higher priority than that.
Our circumstances in the Highlands require integration between commercial services, community services and ambulance services. The Scottish Ambulance Service provides both emergency response and patient transport services. I see a lot of friction between community transport needs and patient transport requirements. The health service should look to see whether patient transport services to Raigmore hospital from outlying places should carry other passengers, too. In that way it would be possible for people to get the transport that they require, which is being denied to them at the moment because of the way in which the local authority has cut its community transport budget. That should be possible, because there are collaborations between the health service and the local authority social work department to deal with adult and old age needs under the aegis of NHS Highland. However, the Ambulance Service does not articulate with Highland Council, NHS Highland or whatever. I ask the minister to start to look at that with his colleagues.
Changes to bus timetables have caused a lot of pain in the far north of the Highlands. However, Brian Souter has described those services as marginally successful, and one can understand why. Petrol and diesel prices are very much higher in Highland where longer distances are involved and fuel is more expensive, particularly following the increase in VAT. There are real problems around the distances involved, and certain places are being cut out in order for bus services to meet any kind of timetable that matches the rail timetable.
In the village that I live in, which is only 17 miles away from Inverness, we have been threatened with a reduction in services because of time and other constraints that relate to long-distance routes from Caithness, namely the X99 and the 25X. It is ridiculous for people who live in a village about 6 miles away from Dingwall to find that, if they want to go to Dingwall on a Saturday—for example, to attend a football match at Ross County—it will take them six or seven hours to travel to the game, watch the game and return home. That is the sort of ridiculous situation that we are dealing with at present, but it is the kind of situation that the commercial bus companies must listen to.
I am delighted that, because Stagecoach is attempting to make its services more economic, as today’s announcement states,
“13,800 Stagecoach drivers will start using the GreenRoad system”
and will get bonuses for driving better and using less fuel. I would like some of its competitors to commit to the same scheme, to reduce the cost of diesel and, perhaps, the price of fares. On top of that, it is vitally important, when we talk about buses, that the fuel duty regulator and the derogation for rural areas should kick in. With the rising price of diesel in peak oil times, we do not have the means to sustain community transport, ambulance services or commercial vehicles. We should widen out the debate and look at the issue in that context. The future of regulation should be better regulation, not more of it.
10:16
In the debate, we are trying to look forward to find ways to ensure that passengers get a better service. Having been on the Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change Committee for the past four years, I am well aware that we can probably make the best progress on better regulation and the integration of services.
If you do not mind, Presiding Officer, I will stray slightly from the subject of debate. In many places, bus, rail, ferry and air services are not often linked up. In my region, it is very important that they are. Part of the problem is the different regulatory arrangement for each of those modes of transport. In looking forward, we need to find a much better way in which to do that job. The committee has said so, but I have not heard a call for better regulation of that sort reflected in the debate and yet the issue affects many of my constituents across the Highlands and Islands, and far wider than that.
Another set of better regulation that has to be worked in relates to commercial bus transport providers and other needs in my area. As the “Our Rural Future” report that has just been published points out:
“In rural areas, Demand Responsive and Community Transport can be vital transport services, and we would encourage Local Authorities to look proactively at enhancing both the provision and the coordination of existing schemes.”
As we have heard, the removal of ring fencing and the transfer of responsibility to local authorities means that they can choose not to make such transport a priority. In my area, Highland Council has seen a reduction over the past couple of years but it has chosen to spend around £50,000 on community transport. If community transport is seen as a priority for improvement, it ought to be given a higher priority than that.
Our circumstances in the Highlands require integration between commercial services, community services and ambulance services. The Scottish Ambulance Service provides both emergency response and patient transport services. I see a lot of friction between community transport needs and patient transport requirements. The health service should look to see whether patient transport services to Raigmore hospital from outlying places should carry other passengers, too. In that way it would be possible for people to get the transport that they require, which is being denied to them at the moment because of the way in which the local authority has cut its community transport budget. That should be possible, because there are collaborations between the health service and the local authority social work department to deal with adult and old age needs under the aegis of NHS Highland. However, the Ambulance Service does not articulate with Highland Council, NHS Highland or whatever. I ask the minister to start to look at that with his colleagues.
Changes to bus timetables have caused a lot of pain in the far north of the Highlands. However, Brian Souter has described those services as marginally successful, and one can understand why. Petrol and diesel prices are very much higher in Highland where longer distances are involved and fuel is more expensive, particularly following the increase in VAT. There are real problems around the distances involved, and certain places are being cut out in order for bus services to meet any kind of timetable that matches the rail timetable.
In the village that I live in, which is only 17 miles away from Inverness, we have been threatened with a reduction in services because of time and other constraints that relate to long-distance routes from Caithness, namely the X99 and the 25X. It is ridiculous for people who live in a village about 6 miles away from Dingwall to find that, if they want to go to Dingwall on a Saturday—for example, to attend a football match at Ross County—it will take them six or seven hours to travel to the game, watch the game and return home. That is the sort of ridiculous situation that we are dealing with at present, but it is the kind of situation that the commercial bus companies must listen to.
I am delighted that, because Stagecoach is attempting to make its services more economic, as today’s announcement states,
“13,800 Stagecoach drivers will start using the GreenRoad system”
and will get bonuses for driving better and using less fuel. I would like some of its competitors to commit to the same scheme, to reduce the cost of diesel and, perhaps, the price of fares. On top of that, it is vitally important, when we talk about buses, that the fuel duty regulator and the derogation for rural areas should kick in. With the rising price of diesel in peak oil times, we do not have the means to sustain community transport, ambulance services or commercial vehicles. We should widen out the debate and look at the issue in that context. The future of regulation should be better regulation, not more of it.
10:16
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business this morning is a Labour Party debate on motion S3M-8177, in the name of Charlie Gordon, on transport.09:15
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab)
Lab
Our previous full-scale debate on local bus services was way back on 12 June 2008. That is not to say that Labour has not campaigned relentlessly before and ...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
I am intrigued by Charlie Gordon’s direction of travel. He complains about market failure, but he seems to be suggesting that he is looking for market monopo...
Charlie Gordon
Lab
Not for the first time, Mr Brown is wrong. If he listens for a bit longer, he will learn.The traffic commissioner continued:“Thus, Edinburgh has Lothian Bus ...
The Minister for Transport and Infrastructure (Keith Brown)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Charlie Gordon
Lab
I am sorry, but I do not have time: maybe later. I pressed Mr Swinney at that meeting by asking:“Are you now saying that the deal that was done”—that was the...
The Minister for Transport and Infrastructure (Keith Brown)
SNP
Today’s debate provides a timely opportunity to discuss the bus industry, assess its current status and consider what improvements can be made to ensure the ...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab)
Lab
What?
Keith Brown
SNP
It is on record.Earlier this year, we agreed changes to the reimbursement rate with the Confederation of Passenger Transport that make the scheme more sustai...
Jackson Carlaw (West of Scotland) (Con)
Con
I was intrigued when news filtered out that Labour was to set aside the whole of this morning’s debate—the last major debate of this parliamentary session—fo...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
Will the member give way?
Jackson Carlaw
Con
I do not think that I will, today.Scotland’s bus industry is an important private sector contributor to our gross domestic product at a time when there is ar...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
As Jackson Carlaw said, we have been here before. It is a bit like groundhog day.Charlie Gordon has revisited a proposal that he knows has no majority suppor...
Keith Brown
SNP
Does Alison McInnes acknowledge that the bus route development scheme was not abolished, but was given to local authorities and mainstreamed into their funding?
Alison McInnes
LD
It has been disaggregated to the point at which it is of little value to anyone. It is not enough to roll out new services and it has not been used in that w...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab)
Lab
I thank Jackson Carlaw for his comments, as I have seldom had so many compliments in one speech. However, for the record, I am more of a Cliff Richard girl t...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)
SNP
Let me declare a personal interest in the debate: I am a bus card holder. I note that the only bus card holders who are likely to participate in the debate a...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Lab
The issue of transport, and in particular buses, is extremely important to people in my constituency and in similar communities throughout Scotland that rely...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
Will Elaine Smith take an intervention?
Elaine Smith
Lab
No, thank you—Stewart Stevenson had the opportunity as a minister to put guards on the trains.In a transport debate, I cannot miss the opportunity to mention...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
Order. I hope that Elaine Smith will return to buses, which seem to me to be the subject of the motion.
Elaine Smith
Lab
I certainly will, but we need to consider transport in the round to see how important buses are.The number of trains from Coatbridge to Edinburgh on the new ...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
For the avoidance of doubt, the question of bus regulation was not ever in the SNP manifesto.In the debate, we are trying to look forward to find ways to ens...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
I am grateful to Charlie Gordon for focusing on bus travel in the last party debate before the election. However, as I said in an intervention, there is a co...
Charlie Gordon
Lab
I cited the transport commissioner, who described most of the bus scene in Scotland as a monopoly and near-monopoly city and county arrangement. Does the mem...
Robert Brown
LD
No, I am trying to put the issue into context and to explain the deficiency at the heart of the member’s proposition.I will say a little more about Glasgow. ...
Keith Brown
SNP
Could Robert Brown explain how his party’s policy of doing away with concessionary travel support will help more women to use the buses?
Robert Brown
LD
Perhaps the minister should read the policy. We have certainly said that there is a need to consider whether people such as me are entitled—as Stewart Steven...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab)
Lab
A fortnight ago, we had a by-election in Clydebank—in the Duntocher, Faifley and Hardgate ward. The key issue in that by-election was buses, specifically the...
Christopher Harvie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
SNP
I declare that I am president of the Scottish Association for Public Transport, which has provided a memo for members setting out a useful range of pragmatic...