Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 17 March 2011
17 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Bus Services Regulation
I do not think that I will, today.
Scotland’s bus industry is an important private sector contributor to our gross domestic product at a time when there is arguably an overdependence on economic activity that is generated within or by the public sector. In fact, we should be celebrating the success of a commercialised bus industry that does not generate any great burden on the public purse during these straitened times. Virtually 100 per cent of First Aberdeen’s mileage, and around 98 per cent of First Glasgow’s, is commercial. Further, the industry employs around 18,200 people.
Much has been achieved for Scotland since Mrs Thatcher’s groundbreaking legislation in 1985, which was followed by the Transport (Scotland) Act 1989. Indeed, much has been achieved by the successful companies that have emerged and those entrepreneurs who have flourished, such as Mr Souter. Mrs Thatcher made Mr Souter what he is and Alex Salmond keeps him where he is—a compliment that Mr Souter seems happy to return. True, there is a commercial fee for that, but what a dividend! Maybe that is the market failure to which Mr Gordon alludes—a commercial organisation failing to support Labour but free to make its own mistakes.
Labour’s 2001 act failed as a catalyst. Mr Gordon’s bill proposal collapsed in January last year and was neatly dispensed with by my very good friend and current UK coalition colleague Alison Mclnnes when she said:
“Any additional legislative approach, as proposed by Mr Gordon, may be unnecessary. In addition, I do not believe that Scotland’s bus services would be best served by additional regulation. Mr Gordon’s proposals would have been a strain on Scotland’s already overstretched local councils. It is likely they would have increased the costs involved for operators, while reducing private sector investment in the bus industry”.
It was true then, and it is true now.
In its briefing for today’s debate, the Confederation of Passenger Transport illustrates just how much is currently being invested by our commercial bus sector in the best interests of the public, whom Mr Gordon seeks to champion. It mentions the more than £61 million that has been invested by Stagecoach in new vehicles in the last four years, with a bus fleet average age of eight years, 66 per cent of which is achieving the low-floor accessibility targets; the introduction of some 120 hybrid electric vehicles; a 57 per cent increase in McGill’s Bus Service’s fleet during the current year; a £39 million investment by Lothian Buses over the past four years in new buses, with an entire fleet achieving the low-floor requirement; and a £15 million investment by First Glasgow in the shuttle service to Glasgow airport. That is all being accomplished without the regulation that Mr Gordon seeks.
Scottish Conservatives believe that further opportunities exist if we open up our motorway hard-shoulder network and are able to sweat that asset to the advantage of passengers and commuters. That is why we welcome the commitment to complete the M8 and the progress that has been made in recent years on the M74 and M80.
I express disappointment—as does Stagecoach for that matter—at Scotland being allowed to fall behind the widespread rollout of hard-shoulder running in England by the Conservative/Liberal Democrat coalition Government. The postponement of the all-too cautious M77 pilot park-and-ride hard-shoulder running scheme, which would have facilitated new fast coach access to Glasgow from park-and-ride facilities in Ayrshire—a considerable additional investment in the area—is much to be regretted, and we will campaign in the forthcoming election for a major expansion of motorway hard-shoulder running, which will be a non-regulated additional opportunity for major investment in public passenger transport by the commercial bus industry.
Mr Gordon has provided us with a timely reminder this morning that, as in so many walks of life, Margaret Thatcher lit the beacon and showed us the way. Bus regulation belongs to our prehistoric industrial and political past. The last thing that our successful commercial bus industry requires is for dinosaurs to once again rule the earth—or, more particularly, the Government of Scotland.
I move amendment S3M-8177.3, to leave out from “believes” to end and insert:
“notes that voluntary partnerships between bus operators and local authorities have proved a successful means of delivering quality bus services in many areas of Scotland; congratulates Perth-based Stagecoach and Aberdeen-based FirstGroup on their unparalleled global success; further congratulates Lothian Buses on being named the best bus company in the UK for 2007 and notes the success that this company has achieved since the Transport (Scotland) Act 1989; therefore, in light of the clear evidence, cautions against the inappropriate regulation of bus services, and urges local authorities concerned about services in their area to examine those voluntary partnerships operating outside the statutory framework that have delivered most in terms of results and to consider what lessons can be learned and applied.”
09:45
Scotland’s bus industry is an important private sector contributor to our gross domestic product at a time when there is arguably an overdependence on economic activity that is generated within or by the public sector. In fact, we should be celebrating the success of a commercialised bus industry that does not generate any great burden on the public purse during these straitened times. Virtually 100 per cent of First Aberdeen’s mileage, and around 98 per cent of First Glasgow’s, is commercial. Further, the industry employs around 18,200 people.
Much has been achieved for Scotland since Mrs Thatcher’s groundbreaking legislation in 1985, which was followed by the Transport (Scotland) Act 1989. Indeed, much has been achieved by the successful companies that have emerged and those entrepreneurs who have flourished, such as Mr Souter. Mrs Thatcher made Mr Souter what he is and Alex Salmond keeps him where he is—a compliment that Mr Souter seems happy to return. True, there is a commercial fee for that, but what a dividend! Maybe that is the market failure to which Mr Gordon alludes—a commercial organisation failing to support Labour but free to make its own mistakes.
Labour’s 2001 act failed as a catalyst. Mr Gordon’s bill proposal collapsed in January last year and was neatly dispensed with by my very good friend and current UK coalition colleague Alison Mclnnes when she said:
“Any additional legislative approach, as proposed by Mr Gordon, may be unnecessary. In addition, I do not believe that Scotland’s bus services would be best served by additional regulation. Mr Gordon’s proposals would have been a strain on Scotland’s already overstretched local councils. It is likely they would have increased the costs involved for operators, while reducing private sector investment in the bus industry”.
It was true then, and it is true now.
In its briefing for today’s debate, the Confederation of Passenger Transport illustrates just how much is currently being invested by our commercial bus sector in the best interests of the public, whom Mr Gordon seeks to champion. It mentions the more than £61 million that has been invested by Stagecoach in new vehicles in the last four years, with a bus fleet average age of eight years, 66 per cent of which is achieving the low-floor accessibility targets; the introduction of some 120 hybrid electric vehicles; a 57 per cent increase in McGill’s Bus Service’s fleet during the current year; a £39 million investment by Lothian Buses over the past four years in new buses, with an entire fleet achieving the low-floor requirement; and a £15 million investment by First Glasgow in the shuttle service to Glasgow airport. That is all being accomplished without the regulation that Mr Gordon seeks.
Scottish Conservatives believe that further opportunities exist if we open up our motorway hard-shoulder network and are able to sweat that asset to the advantage of passengers and commuters. That is why we welcome the commitment to complete the M8 and the progress that has been made in recent years on the M74 and M80.
I express disappointment—as does Stagecoach for that matter—at Scotland being allowed to fall behind the widespread rollout of hard-shoulder running in England by the Conservative/Liberal Democrat coalition Government. The postponement of the all-too cautious M77 pilot park-and-ride hard-shoulder running scheme, which would have facilitated new fast coach access to Glasgow from park-and-ride facilities in Ayrshire—a considerable additional investment in the area—is much to be regretted, and we will campaign in the forthcoming election for a major expansion of motorway hard-shoulder running, which will be a non-regulated additional opportunity for major investment in public passenger transport by the commercial bus industry.
Mr Gordon has provided us with a timely reminder this morning that, as in so many walks of life, Margaret Thatcher lit the beacon and showed us the way. Bus regulation belongs to our prehistoric industrial and political past. The last thing that our successful commercial bus industry requires is for dinosaurs to once again rule the earth—or, more particularly, the Government of Scotland.
I move amendment S3M-8177.3, to leave out from “believes” to end and insert:
“notes that voluntary partnerships between bus operators and local authorities have proved a successful means of delivering quality bus services in many areas of Scotland; congratulates Perth-based Stagecoach and Aberdeen-based FirstGroup on their unparalleled global success; further congratulates Lothian Buses on being named the best bus company in the UK for 2007 and notes the success that this company has achieved since the Transport (Scotland) Act 1989; therefore, in light of the clear evidence, cautions against the inappropriate regulation of bus services, and urges local authorities concerned about services in their area to examine those voluntary partnerships operating outside the statutory framework that have delivered most in terms of results and to consider what lessons can be learned and applied.”
09:45
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business this morning is a Labour Party debate on motion S3M-8177, in the name of Charlie Gordon, on transport.09:15
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab)
Lab
Our previous full-scale debate on local bus services was way back on 12 June 2008. That is not to say that Labour has not campaigned relentlessly before and ...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
I am intrigued by Charlie Gordon’s direction of travel. He complains about market failure, but he seems to be suggesting that he is looking for market monopo...
Charlie Gordon
Lab
Not for the first time, Mr Brown is wrong. If he listens for a bit longer, he will learn.The traffic commissioner continued:“Thus, Edinburgh has Lothian Bus ...
The Minister for Transport and Infrastructure (Keith Brown)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Charlie Gordon
Lab
I am sorry, but I do not have time: maybe later. I pressed Mr Swinney at that meeting by asking:“Are you now saying that the deal that was done”—that was the...
The Minister for Transport and Infrastructure (Keith Brown)
SNP
Today’s debate provides a timely opportunity to discuss the bus industry, assess its current status and consider what improvements can be made to ensure the ...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab)
Lab
What?
Keith Brown
SNP
It is on record.Earlier this year, we agreed changes to the reimbursement rate with the Confederation of Passenger Transport that make the scheme more sustai...
Jackson Carlaw (West of Scotland) (Con)
Con
I was intrigued when news filtered out that Labour was to set aside the whole of this morning’s debate—the last major debate of this parliamentary session—fo...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
Will the member give way?
Jackson Carlaw
Con
I do not think that I will, today.Scotland’s bus industry is an important private sector contributor to our gross domestic product at a time when there is ar...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
As Jackson Carlaw said, we have been here before. It is a bit like groundhog day.Charlie Gordon has revisited a proposal that he knows has no majority suppor...
Keith Brown
SNP
Does Alison McInnes acknowledge that the bus route development scheme was not abolished, but was given to local authorities and mainstreamed into their funding?
Alison McInnes
LD
It has been disaggregated to the point at which it is of little value to anyone. It is not enough to roll out new services and it has not been used in that w...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab)
Lab
I thank Jackson Carlaw for his comments, as I have seldom had so many compliments in one speech. However, for the record, I am more of a Cliff Richard girl t...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)
SNP
Let me declare a personal interest in the debate: I am a bus card holder. I note that the only bus card holders who are likely to participate in the debate a...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Lab
The issue of transport, and in particular buses, is extremely important to people in my constituency and in similar communities throughout Scotland that rely...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
Will Elaine Smith take an intervention?
Elaine Smith
Lab
No, thank you—Stewart Stevenson had the opportunity as a minister to put guards on the trains.In a transport debate, I cannot miss the opportunity to mention...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
Order. I hope that Elaine Smith will return to buses, which seem to me to be the subject of the motion.
Elaine Smith
Lab
I certainly will, but we need to consider transport in the round to see how important buses are.The number of trains from Coatbridge to Edinburgh on the new ...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
For the avoidance of doubt, the question of bus regulation was not ever in the SNP manifesto.In the debate, we are trying to look forward to find ways to ens...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
I am grateful to Charlie Gordon for focusing on bus travel in the last party debate before the election. However, as I said in an intervention, there is a co...
Charlie Gordon
Lab
I cited the transport commissioner, who described most of the bus scene in Scotland as a monopoly and near-monopoly city and county arrangement. Does the mem...
Robert Brown
LD
No, I am trying to put the issue into context and to explain the deficiency at the heart of the member’s proposition.I will say a little more about Glasgow. ...
Keith Brown
SNP
Could Robert Brown explain how his party’s policy of doing away with concessionary travel support will help more women to use the buses?
Robert Brown
LD
Perhaps the minister should read the policy. We have certainly said that there is a need to consider whether people such as me are entitled—as Stewart Steven...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab)
Lab
A fortnight ago, we had a by-election in Clydebank—in the Duntocher, Faifley and Hardgate ward. The key issue in that by-election was buses, specifically the...
Christopher Harvie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
SNP
I declare that I am president of the Scottish Association for Public Transport, which has provided a memo for members setting out a useful range of pragmatic...