Committee
Equal Opportunities Committee 08 March 2011
08 Mar 2011 · S3 · Equal Opportunities Committee
Item of business
Subordinate Legislation
Equality Act 2010 (Specification of Public Authorities) (Scotland) Order 2011 (Draft)
Jatin Haria
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We need to review what has and has not worked in the current requirements. When the first set of specific duties was put in place eight or nine years ago, I do not know whether a proper analysis was done. If we are now saying—which we are, by changing the duties—that the current requirements have not worked as well as they could have done, we are in danger of making the same mistake again by just going with something new and different without undertaking a proper analysis of how the new system will work. We could be here in 10 years’ time saying, “Well, we tried the second lot and that didn’t work either”.Some of the responses, especially the response from Unison, which is at the coal face of activities in the public sector in Scotland, are a damning indictment of how equality impact assessments have—or have not—worked. We are in danger of doing the same thing—or something slightly different—to make us feel better. We are saying, “Well, we got it slightly wrong last time, so we’ll do something different and that will be okay”. I do not want to be here in 10 years’ time saying, “We tried it again and it didn’t work”. We should have a proper analysis of what could and could not work.With regard to the new concept of equality outcomes, for example, has anyone thought through how it might work in practice with a public body, and projected two or three years on to see what might have changed? I do not know whether that work has been done. I would rather take some time out and spend the next few months looking at that and getting it right as far as we can. We will never get it perfect, but we can certainly have a better consultation and better dialogue with public bodies and equality groups to try to get it a bit more right. Even if that means taking up to another year to get it right, I would rather do that than rush into something.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Margaret Mitchell)
Con
Good morning and welcome to the fifth meeting of the Equal Opportunities Committee in 2011. I remind all those present that mobile phones and BlackBerrys sho...
Jatin Haria (Coalition for Racial Equality and Rights)
Thank you. Our main concern is that the new proposals are a regression from what is currently in place. We do not think that what is in place has worked as e...
The Convener
Con
Do you want to answer the second part of the question, on how you think things could be improved?
Jatin Haria
We need to review what has and has not worked in the current requirements. When the first set of specific duties was put in place eight or nine years ago, I ...
The Convener
Con
So your main concern is that the lack of a review in the past might cause a problem for the future, too, if the regulations go ahead as they are.
Jatin Haria
It is partly about the lack of a review, but even what we have has not been working. Equality impact assessments have not been working, and the monitoring of...
Wladyslaw Mejka
I will be boring for a wee while and talk about the process of how we have arrived at the position that we are in today and the difficult decisions that comm...
The Convener
Con
I will interrupt you there, because we will go on to look specifically at process. Is there anything else that concerns you more generally? I remind all the ...
Louisa McDaid (Deaf Action)
Sorry, but we are having some problems with the palantype equipment—the system has hung.
Wladyslaw Mejka
Bear with us.
The Convener
Con
We will move on to question 2 and you can come back in if you have resolved the problems.The Scottish Government recently published an analysis of its consul...
Jatin Haria
It depends on the questions that are asked, and this consultation asked a lot of questions about timescales rather than the substance of the duties.As we say...
Marlyn Glen (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Can I check that Mr Mejka is catching up? It is very important for the committee to include everybody.
The Convener
Con
Absolutely. We will give Mr Mejka the chance to answer the first question.
Marlyn Glen
Lab
If he has caught up, that is fine.I congratulate the witnesses on their vigilance. They have emphasised for us the importance of partnership working, without...
The Convener
Con
We can now go back to Wladyslaw Mejka on the first question. Other than process, were there any concerns? We will cover process specifically later. Interrupt...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
Where are we at?
The Convener
Con
I have been advised that we will not cover process later, so I stand corrected. I ask Wladyslaw Mejka to give his evidence as he was going to.
Wladyslaw Mejka
Other than the process, which I look forward to getting into with you—
The Convener
Con
Please talk about the process, too; apparently we will not cover it later.
Wladyslaw Mejka
One concern that I have, which has not been mentioned yet—I think that the committee needs to look at the matter and ask questions of ministers and officials...
The Convener
Con
What are your views on the consultation document?
Wladyslaw Mejka
I suggest that there was a lack of context in how Government set out what it wanted us—by which I mean not only public bodies but organisations such as those...
Marlyn Glen
Lab
I am interested in what you said about what I thought was mainly a statistical analysis. This should not be done on a counting-of-heads basis. If 99 per cent...
Jatin Haria
I agree totally. The large number of public sector respondents had a vested interest in the consultation but the analysis has not been properly broken down i...
Hugh O’Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD)
LD
Some respondents to the Government’s consultation raised concerns about requiring equality outcomes on all protected characteristics. Why do you consider it ...
Jatin Haria
We do not. What we said in our response, and what a number of people have said, is that you should either have outcomes on all characteristics or show eviden...
Wladyslaw Mejka
Some submissions tried to find the most practicable way forward to achieve what we think was desired. Some suggested that we do not need an outcome for each ...
Hugh O’Donnell
LD
You seem to be following the Welsh model. Is that correct? Jatin Haria is nodding.
Jatin Haria
Yes.