Hansard

The Convener Lab

PE1263, by Evelyn Mundell, on behalf of Ben Mundell, concerns human rights for dairy farmers.I welcome Richard Lochhead, the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affa...

Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con

For brevity’s sake, I will move straight to my questions, of which I have three.Given that the Government now admits that it considered human rights issues w...

The Convener Lab

As long as we have time to ensure that members of the committee can ask questions as well.

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead) SNP

I think that I heard you say that this was the last meeting of the committee this session, convener, which means that it is your last meeting of any committe...

Jamie McGrigor Con

I disagree with the cabinet secretary. The ring fence was introduced in 1984 and in 1994, when there was deregulation, the whole picture changed. At that poi...

Richard Lochhead SNP

In response to the question on the timing of the introduction of ring fencing, my understanding of the timetable—I ask the officials to intervene if I am wro...

Jamie McGrigor Con

Yes.

Richard Lochhead SNP

You said ring fencing, so I am just clarifying what you meant.In response to deregulation under the Conservative Government in the early 1990s and the disban...

Jamie McGrigor Con

I said that the Scottish Government stated specifically that the removal of the ring fence for Islay allowed dairy farmers there to sell quota on the open ma...

Richard Lochhead SNP

Notwithstanding the many pressures that for the past decade and more have faced dairy farmers across Scotland, including in Argyll and the southern isles, it...

Jamie McGrigor Con

On that point, minister, only 20 per cent of the original dairy farmers in that area now exist, because most of the others have gone bankrupt. Does the minis...

Richard Lochhead SNP

The member refers to some of the wider pressures facing the dairy sector and the reduction in the number of dairy farmers in one part of Scotland. I do not d...

Jamie McGrigor Con

But at least those in other areas were able to sell their quota and diversify. May I ask one more question, convener?

The Convener Lab

Yes.

Jamie McGrigor Con

Did the Government at any stage consider the economic impact on dairy farmers in the southern isles’ ring-fenced area of not being able, unlike virtually all...

Richard Lochhead SNP

I will answer what I can of that question, because we are going back to 1994 when the ring-fencing concept was introduced and implemented. On the adjustments...

Jamie McGrigor Con

Minister, the creamery was not obligated to pick up milk from the farmers in question.

Richard Lochhead SNP

I can only give you the rationale that was used for the decision making on ring fencing.

The Convener Lab

Thank you. Do members have any further questions?

Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab) Lab

Good afternoon, minister. You stated, quite correctly, that Governments of whatever political complexion do not reveal their legal advice. However, the infor...

Richard Lochhead SNP

I cannot answer that question. Ministers take advice and reach a policy decision. On this issue, we have considered the human rights legislation and been mad...

Bill Butler Lab

I guessed that that would be the response, given Angela Lawson’s emphatic head shaking.For the record, will you reiterate the main reasons why the Scottish G...

Richard Lochhead SNP

As I alluded to, a number of factors affect the profitability of dairy farms. Jamie McGrigor might dispute this, but I have looked into the issue and am unaw...

The Convener Lab

I ask Jamie McGrigor what contact he has had with other dairy farmers.

Jamie McGrigor Con

I have spoken to several dairy farmers about the issue and I can assure the minister that the people who are presenting the petition are not the only ones wh...

The Convener Lab

I must bring the questioning to a close, as we need to discuss where we go with the petition. I seek members’ views on our options.

Bill Butler Lab

We are grateful to the cabinet secretary for coming and for his evidence. This is the committee’s last meeting, so there are two alternatives. One is to clos...

Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green) Green

Sorry, but I disagree with Bill Butler. The petition is fairly narrow in that it asks the Government to“accept that individual dairy farmers have human right...

Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con

I agree with Bill Butler’s suggestion, particularly since the review will include a full public consultation exercise, which might well bring forward the oth...

The Convener Lab

We have two diametrically opposed suggestions. Are there any more views?