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Committee

Justice Committee 08 February 2011

08 Feb 2011 · S3 · Justice Committee
Item of business
Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Grant, Rhoda Lab Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV
I will explain the background to the amendments. The committee and the minister supported the policy objectives of section 3 at stage 1, but there were a number of issues to resolve, not least the definition of domestic abuse. We discussed the issue with the minister and his team and we consulted the Lord Advocate and the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service, and three issues became apparent.First, we need to name or identify the interdict at an early stage, so that everyone who is involved knows without doubt that it is an interdict, breach of which is a criminal offence.Secondly, there are complications to do with the relationships that are covered and how we define a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. The definition in section 4 refers to“a partner in an established relationship of any length”.The whole definition has been unpopular, and the phrase “of any length” did not find favour anywhere. Boyfriend-girlfriend relationships are covered by the Protection from Abuse (Scotland) Act 2001 and not to include them in the bill would be to take a retrograde step.Thirdly, currently the power of arrest in interdicts is time limited—it lapses after a set period of time—so protection under the bill would also cease. After a great deal of reflection, the bill team thought that the best approach would be to introduce a new interdict, called a domestic abuse interdict. Naming the interdict would provide clarity, because it would be obvious to everyone that breach of such an interdict would be a criminal offence. The criminal offence of breach of the new interdict would not cease when the power of arrest expired.Amendment 15, which provides for the new interdict, includes a definition of a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. Amendments 15A to 15C are designed to give the committee a choice of definition. My favoured option is in amendment 15 and is:“a partner in an established relationship of a non-platonic nature with B”.It is clear from the definition that the relationship might not involve sexual intercourse but is a romantic relationship. It does not depend on marriage, civil partnership or cohabitation.The option in amendment 15A is:“a partner in an established relationship with B”.That does not include the offending phrase “of any length”, which is in section 4. It uses the definition that is used in the Protection of Children and Prevention of Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2005.Amendment 15B offers the option of A being“in a sexual relationship with B”which, under amendment 15C, is defined as “a relationship”that“need not involve sexual intercourse”.That definition is currently used by the legal system with regard to sexual assault.Amendment 16 ensures that the new interdict has to be served before it comes into force and that from that time any breach is a criminal offence.Amendment 5, in the name of the minister, deals with the same issues. As I have said before, I believe that although we have the same goals, we have different ways of reaching them, and I am concerned that amendment 5 will cover only those people who are in formalised relationships or are cohabiting. In 2009-10, the reported incidence of domestic abuse decreased in every age group apart from the under-18s—the group in which relationships are most likely to be of the boyfriend-girlfriend type—and I simply do not believe that we can leave people in that situation unprotected.Moreover, amendment 5 does not name the interdict, recognise its difference from other interdicts or deal with the problem of lapsing powers of arrest. By lodging amendment 5A, I have sought to amend amendment 5 to include boyfriend-girlfriend types of relationships by using the definition set out in the lead amendment. Amendment 18 makes clear on the interdict the expiry date of the powers of arrest and that, while the powers of arrest are in force, any breach of the interdict is a criminal offence. However, even with those changes, we are not clear whether amendment 5 is actually the best way forward and I urge the committee to support amendment 15 instead.Amendment 17 is consequential on amendment 15 and ensures that the new interdict is penalised.I move amendments 15 and 15A.

In the same item of business

The Convener Con
Under agenda item 3, we have the only planned day of stage 2 proceedings on the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill. There are 22 amendments—including, unusually,...
The Convener Con
Section 1 is on non-harassment orders in cases of domestic abuse. Amendment 1, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is grouped with amendments 2, 3 and 8.
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I want to put on record my thanks to the minister and his team for their assistance in drafting many of the amendments and for their help with technical issu...
James Kelly Lab
I indicate my support for all the amendments that Rhoda Grant has lodged in the group. As she outlined, she has taken account of the stage 1 evidence and deb...
Stewart Maxwell SNP
I, too, indicate support for Rhoda Grant’s amendments in the group. The amendments relate to a difficult part of the bill; there are good arguments on both s...
The Convener Con
The issue concerned me, not because I had any particular issues about the direction of travel—far from it—but because of definitional problems that could hav...
Fergus Ewing SNP
Thank you, convener. I am pleased to work with Rhoda Grant, precisely as she has indicated. At the stage 1 debate, I said that we were happy to do that. Both...
The Convener Con
I invite Rhoda Grant to wind up and to indicate whether she will press or withdraw amendment 1, although the answer is fairly self-evident.
Rhoda Grant Lab
Indeed. There is no reason for me to make further comment at this point.Amendment 1 agreed to.Amendments 2 and 3 moved—Rhoda Grant—and agreed to.Section 1, a...
The Convener Con
Section 2 amendments are on the provision of civil legal aid in cases of domestic abuse and the monitoring of such provision. Amendment 13, in the name of Rh...
Rhoda Grant Lab
There is anecdotal evidence that, because of financial constraint, victims of domestic abuse are not able to access the protection that is available. That wa...
Fergus Ewing SNP
Amendments 4 and 12 delete section 2 from the bill and make a consequential amendment to the long title. The Government has been opposed to section 2, which ...
Robert Brown LD
I substantially agree with the minister on these matters. It is important that people who suffer domestic abuse should have urgent access to legal aid as req...
James Kelly Lab
I support Rhoda Grant’s amendments 13 and 14. She has taken a pragmatic view on section 2. Concerns were expressed in evidence and in debate about singling o...
Stewart Maxwell SNP
I very much agree with Rhoda Grant’s intention in introducing the bill and I, too, hope that it will have positive, practical effects. For the reasons given ...
The Convener Con
It was clear at the stage 1 debate that there were difficulties with regard to section 2. Rhoda Grant has clearly recognised that, because amendment 13 would...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I have listened carefully to the committee’s and the minister’s comments. I am also grateful to the minister for putting on record the current situation, whi...
The Convener Con
Let us deal with matters as we get to them. Believe me, it will make life simpler.Amendment 13, by agreement, withdrawn.Amendment 4 moved—Fergus Ewing—and ag...
The Convener Con
We move on to interdicts, breach of which is an offence. Amendment 15, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is grouped with amendments 15A to 15C, 16, 5, 5A, 17, 7 an...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I will explain the background to the amendments. The committee and the minister supported the policy objectives of section 3 at stage 1, but there were a num...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I am most happy to consider the anecdotal evidence and other issues that the member in charge mentioned in relation to the previous group and will also ask S...
Robert Brown LD
This is an extraordinarily difficult area, as we all know. We are faced with an almost bewildering number of alternatives, which does credit to Rhoda Grant’s...
James Kelly Lab
There is no doubt that this is a complex area and that we have a complex set of amendments, which leads on from the proposed deletion of section 4. The bill ...
Stewart Maxwell SNP
I support amendment 5, which deals with the problem of having to have a definition. It offers a tight definition of domestic abuse that most of us understand...
Nigel Don SNP
Having heard Stewart Maxwell’s comments, I endorse everything that he has just said.
The Convener Con
As has already been commented upon, we have before us a plethora of amendments that are predicated on the difficulties of definition. We anticipated that at ...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I am grateful to the committee for spending time on this issue, which I recognise is not straightforward. I am also grateful to the minister for saying that ...
The Convener Con
We are talking about amendment 15A.
Rhoda Grant Lab
Can I withdraw amendment 15A?
The Convener Con
We will come to amendment 15 in a moment. This is going to be complicated.Amendment 15A, by agreement, withdrawn.Amendments 15B and 15C not moved.