Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 10 March 2011
10 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Local Services
Not at all. After all, once the consultation has been considered and is concluded, it will be passed to the Christie commission. There is clear acceptance that, whatever boundaries are made and whether we go for a regional model or a single force, in any event things will be predicated on what is a local authority and, if that is varied by the Christie commission, will have to be adapted, so I do not see the two as conflicting at all.
It is also essential to give all communities, urban and rural, access to specialist police and fire resources and to give Scotland the capacity and capability that it needs to deal with crime and incidents that show no respect for barriers or boundaries between forces and services. Chief Constable House has publicly said that Strathclyde Police would be unable to cope with a major counter-terrorism incident without assistance from other forces. Scotland needs the national capability to prevent and respond to real threats, and there are real threats. In the early tenure of this Administration, we faced the Glasgow airport bombing and, even as we speak, a terrorist is being detained—although I cannot go into that, as it is sub judice. That shows the position that we face in this country, which must be dealt with.
Reform is essential to provide clear delivery of and national accountability for national issues, and to strengthen local accountability and engagement by bringing decisions and accountability for services closer to communities. Most of all, it is essential to protect local services for the long term.
Communities do not want Fife Fire and Rescue to transfer firefighters to other brigades, or police forces such as Northern Constabulary and Grampian Police to go on closing police stations and freezing recruitment year after year. We do not want unnecessary duplication across eight police forces and eight fire services, with eight separate police headquarters and eight separate fire HQs and all the substantial overheads that those entail.
The officers from Strathclyde Police whom I met in Arran a few weeks ago were not working to some city agenda or waiting for orders from a distant HQ. They were working with local communities to solve local problems. The man in charge was Sergeant MacKay.
It is also essential to give all communities, urban and rural, access to specialist police and fire resources and to give Scotland the capacity and capability that it needs to deal with crime and incidents that show no respect for barriers or boundaries between forces and services. Chief Constable House has publicly said that Strathclyde Police would be unable to cope with a major counter-terrorism incident without assistance from other forces. Scotland needs the national capability to prevent and respond to real threats, and there are real threats. In the early tenure of this Administration, we faced the Glasgow airport bombing and, even as we speak, a terrorist is being detained—although I cannot go into that, as it is sub judice. That shows the position that we face in this country, which must be dealt with.
Reform is essential to provide clear delivery of and national accountability for national issues, and to strengthen local accountability and engagement by bringing decisions and accountability for services closer to communities. Most of all, it is essential to protect local services for the long term.
Communities do not want Fife Fire and Rescue to transfer firefighters to other brigades, or police forces such as Northern Constabulary and Grampian Police to go on closing police stations and freezing recruitment year after year. We do not want unnecessary duplication across eight police forces and eight fire services, with eight separate police headquarters and eight separate fire HQs and all the substantial overheads that those entail.
The officers from Strathclyde Police whom I met in Arran a few weeks ago were not working to some city agenda or waiting for orders from a distant HQ. They were working with local communities to solve local problems. The man in charge was Sergeant MacKay.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business is a Scottish Liberal Democrat Party debate on local services.09:15
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
I am glad to open the last Liberal Democrat debate of the session, on local services, and I will do so by nailing our colours firmly to the mast. Liberal Dem...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Can Mr Brown tell us where the Lib Dem approach to decentralisation was when the Lib Dems, in government, scrapped the area tourist boards and brought all to...
Robert Brown
LD
It is fair to say that the proper approach to tourism provision has been a difficult and controversial issue for a number of years—there are no two ways abou...
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing)
SNP
Will Mr Brown give way?
Robert Brown
LD
If the minister does not mind, I will make a little progress.Liberal Democrats argue today that the Gadarene rush to centralise everything that moves is flaw...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
Robert Brown says that the SNP Government micromanages, but does he recall that it was the Labour-Liberal Administration that said that £6 million must be us...
Robert Brown
LD
Yes it was and yes I do, but the policy did not come from our side of the coalition.On the police proposals, we are told that three options are on the table:...
Dave Thompson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Robert Brown
LD
I am happy to give way to Dave Thompson, so that he can explain his position on the matter.
Dave Thompson
SNP
I thank the member. Does he accept that a consultation is going on? Has he read the consultation paper? Does he expect to contribute to the consultation?
Robert Brown
LD
I think that Alison McInnes dealt satisfactorily with the matter in last Thursday’s debate, when she said:“the proposals for a national police force have no ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
You can have five more minutes, Mr Brown.
Robert Brown
LD
Thank you.The consultation claims that there would be savings of between £81 million and £197 million. However, the Association of Chief Police Officers in S...
George Foulkes (Lothians) (Lab)
Lab
Will Robert Brown take an intervention?
Robert Brown
LD
Yes, all right.
George Foulkes
Lab
Robert Brown is talking about the elderly. Does he support the policy announced by Tavish Scott to cut concessionary fares for the elderly?
Robert Brown
LD
Sorry, I did not catch that. Cuts to what?
George Foulkes
Lab
At the recent party conference, Robert Brown’s party leader said that the Liberal Democrats planned to cut concessionary fares for the elderly.
Robert Brown
LD
That was not said at all. George Foulkes should follow what is said more carefully.Let us return to the SNP. At no point in the past four years, despite the ...
The Minister for Public Health and Sport (Shona Robison)
SNP
Will the member give way on that point?
Robert Brown
LD
No—I should continue towards finality, as members will be glad to hear.The plan leaves 38,500 social workers in limbo, with the prospect of transfer at some ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I begin by reminding members that we are currently consulting on police and fire reform, and that both consultations are founded on an approach that protects...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)
LD
In previous debates, not least the debate in the chamber last week, the cabinet secretary has made it clear that his preference is for a single force for Sco...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
I have not said that my preference is for a single force. I have said that the argument for that clearly has greater weight at the moment than the regional f...
Robert Brown
LD
Will the cabinet secretary explain to the Parliament why the consultation follows evidence gathering by the officers he mentioned rather than precedes it, wh...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Well, the matters are on-going. Additional evidence was produced by Karyn McCluskey and, indeed, by Deputy Chief Constable Steve Allen of Lothian and Borders...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
The cabinet secretary talked about community planning. Does he agree that the police and, indeed, the fire service are key members of the family of community...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Not at all. After all, once the consultation has been considered and is concluded, it will be passed to the Christie commission. There is clear acceptance th...
Jim Tolson (Dunfermline West) (LD)
LD
The cabinet secretary mentioned people coming together. Is it not already the case that all over Scotland, officers—whether in our police or our fire service...