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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 08 December 2010

08 Dec 2010 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Property Factors (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Johnstone, Alex Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV
The debate that we have had today and the process that led us to it form a good example of the Parliament at its best. I only wonder why it has taken us so long to get to this stage. As has become clear during the debate, the reason is partially that certain elements of the subject are a minefield. For that reason I do not simply congratulate Patricia Ferguson on making it this far; she has my sympathy as well. She will have my support as the bill progresses.

We heard from a number of members, including Patricia Ferguson at the outset, that the bill has become necessary because there are those who have found themselves at the mercy of unscrupulous people. It would appear that legislation has become necessary because of the behaviour of a particular sector. Like many others, I emphasise that I genuinely believe that there are competent and responsible property and land managers in Scotland who are doing their job effectively, but it is all too clear from the evidence that has been presented that a surprisingly high proportion do not live up to those standards. We have heard that from a number of members who have given examples today.

I am prepared to acknowledge that the justification for the bill lies largely among those who operate as property factors for blocks of flats and other buildings across Scotland, but I share the experience that Mary Mulligan described. The cases that have come to my attention tend to relate to land maintenance companies. In many cases, green space has been allocated within an estate and there is a requirement to find a manager. My experience has led me to find out that some extraordinary things are happening, especially where development has taken place quickly and on a large scale. In Westhill near Aberdeen, for example, three different estates ended up in separate disputes with a land manager. An estate in Laurencekirk has also ended up in such a dispute.

I find that, as with other things, the people who find themselves in such disputes would like to find a way out of the arrangement that they have become involved in but, more important, they would far rather that the company simply delivered the service for which the householders are paying. That is why it is so important that we ensure that we have registration of property factors, a code of conduct and a means of dispute resolution. Those are the key elements that the bill would introduce.

As we have heard, there was a concerted attempt to introduce a voluntary accreditation scheme, but its failure to appear within an acceptable timescale and the doubts that many speakers from all parts of the chamber have cast on whether it would have the desired effect have brought me and others to the stage where it is obvious, if it was not before, that a proper statutory route is needed if we are to achieve the objectives.

Other interesting parts of the debate related to the changes that will need to be made to the bill and to existing legislation if we are to achieve our objectives. I was delighted to hear David McLetchie point out how competition can drive up standards. I was surprised to hear that resounding around the chamber and being repeated by members from all political parties—because we do not always find support for our views on competition. It is obvious that if people have the right to change factors, competition will deliver improved standards. The problem is that so few people have the opportunity to change factors or land maintenance companies. To make that possible, it might well be necessary to look at other legislation and consider changes to the Title Conditions (Scotland) Act 2003.

We are in the unusual position of considering a bill that is not in black-and-white form. Although a number of potential changes have been highlighted in the debate, the bill has the chamber’s support. The process will not be easy—indeed, in introducing this bill Patricia Ferguson has stepped into a minefield—but she will have my support and the support of the Conservatives. The Conservatives are delighted to support the proposal and will approve the bill’s general principles at decision time.

17:05

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-7531, in the name of Patricia Ferguson, on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill. Time is fairly tight for...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased that we are debating the Local Government and Communities Committee’s stage 1 report on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill, and I would like t...
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to be taking part in the debate as convener of the Local Government and Communities Committee. We were the lead committee that looked at Patrici...
The Minister for Housing and Communities (Alex Neil) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to debate the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill, which was introduced to the Parliament by Patricia Ferguson. The Government recogni...
Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab) Lab
I, too, am pleased to take part in the stage 1 debate on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson on getting the bill to this s...
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con) Con
Like other members, I congratulate Patricia Ferguson, the bill’s sponsor, on her persistence and dedication in bringing this measure to Parliament and, I mig...
Jim Tolson (Dunfermline West) (LD) LD
The Liberal Democrats welcome the member’s bill that Patricia Ferguson has introduced and offer our congratulations to her. I also congratulate the clerks, w...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
I, too, congratulate Patricia Ferguson and thank her for introducing the bill. As one of the original signatories to the bill proposal, I am pleased to speak...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab) Lab
Like other members, I congratulate Patricia Ferguson on introducing her bill and getting it to stage 1. She should be commended for her hard work and diligen...
Elizabeth Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Stage 1 is an important staging post in assessing the many issues that are the origin of the bill. I pay tribute to Patricia Ferguson for the methodical mann...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD) LD
Does Elizabeth Smith accept that clarity on the point that she has just raised might make it easier for some people to accept liability for payments, and not...
Elizabeth Smith Con
Mr Brown makes a valid point, and I and the Conservative party in general accept it. It is a strong message in the bill.The relationship between the property...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I thank Patricia Ferguson for introducing the bill, and I thank my fel...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab) Lab
Factoring is an enormous issue in the new-build flats in my constituency, albeit not in the traditional tenements, which in Edinburgh have never had factors....
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee West) (SNP) SNP
I echo others in the chamber in congratulating Patricia Ferguson on the bill, which touches on a subject that is of great concern to many of our constituents...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD) LD
On behalf of the Liberal Democrats, I praise Patricia Ferguson for introducing the bill and for the manner in which she has done so. Although this debate wil...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The debate that we have had today and the process that led us to it form a good example of the Parliament at its best. I only wonder why it has taken us so l...
Mary Mulligan Lab
This has been an excellent debate in which all members have made quite heartfelt pleas for legislation. That is not always the case in this chamber.As Jim To...
Alex Neil SNP
This debate on the principles of the bill and the issues that are to be addressed at stage 2 has been good and consensual. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson a...
David McLetchie Con
In relation to those figures—£2,000 a case and 220 cases a year for the private rented housing panel—is the minister convinced that the panel provides value ...
Alex Neil SNP
The reality is that it is quasi-judicial. As Mr McLetchie will know, anything that is judicial, and particularly anything that involves lawyers, can be extre...
Robert Brown LD
Will the minister take a further brief intervention on that?
Alex Neil SNP
Of course, from another lawyer. Are they going to declare an interest, Presiding Officer?
Robert Brown LD
The issue is about the need to have at the end of the process an enforceable order so that everybody knows where they stand. It is a judicial process and it ...
Alex Neil SNP
The enforceable order would be the responsibility of other authorities and not necessarily the panel or ombudsman. My point is that there are a great deal of...
Patricia Ferguson Lab
I very much welcome the content and tone of the debate. I will try to respond as best I can to the issues that members have raised. The debate has demonstrat...
Malcolm Chisholm Lab
At the recent meeting that I referred to, it seemed that a large number of people were paying 35 per cent commission to factors for their insurance.
Patricia Ferguson Lab
I would not dispute that. I have heard a variety of figures mentioned. I have also heard about what, in the trade, are loosely called gentlemen’s agreements,...