Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 08 December 2010
08 Dec 2010 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Property Factors (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I welcome the opportunity to debate the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill, which was introduced to the Parliament by Patricia Ferguson. The Government recognises the need for action to improve standards in residential property management, or factoring services, in Scotland. Improving the condition of the common parts of housing in the private sector is one of our key priorities, and it is clear that property managers have a crucial role to play in that.
The quality of service that some residential property managers provide is a matter of concern to the Parliament and the Government. Duncan McNeil and Patricia Ferguson have already expressed concern about that quality, and I know that previous Administrations over the past seven years felt that that was a problem.
Back in 2003, the housing improvement task force recommended that a national voluntary accreditation scheme for property managers should be set up. More recently, in 2009, the Office of Fair Trading published a report that concluded that some form of self-regulation of the industry should be introduced in order to improve the quality of services that are available to home owners. As members will be aware, the Scottish Government has acted on those recommendations to develop a voluntary accreditation scheme for property managers and land maintenance companies, but we now accept that a statutory approach is appropriate. As I have said to both Patricia Ferguson and the committee, we support the aims and general principles of the bill. Consensus is growing both within the chamber and outside it on a statutory approach to the regulation of the property management and land maintenance industry being required, and we are comfortable with that.
Although the Government, like the committee, supports the general principles of the bill, we believe that there are a number of issues that require greater clarity. Duncan McNeil made points about many of those issues on behalf of the committee. We believe that drafting improvements are required to make the bill more effective and to avoid unintended consequences, and that there are provisions in the bill that, if they are unaltered, are likely to be unworkable and run the risk of failing to live up to the consumer’s reasonable expectations for effective action.
Since the Government submitted its evidence to the committee in June, I have been consistent on the areas in the bill that require further consideration. Since then, I have set out in more detail to the committee and the member in charge of the bill the issues that require further consideration. I have already offered Patricia Ferguson the advice and support that my officials and I can provide to help her to make the bill as effective as possible and to achieve the aims that we all want to see achieved. A wide range of stakeholders have also offered their views and suggestions at stage 1 on how the bill could be improved. I am interested in hearing about the amendments that Patricia Ferguson proposes to lodge in light of all the input that she and the committee have received.
Amendments are required to a number of the bill’s provisions. The three principal challenges are: issues relating to the definition of “property factor”; the consequences of deregistration for both the factor and the consumer; and the means of dispute resolution, which Patricia Ferguson and Duncan McNeil have referred to.
We believe that the definition of “property factor” in the bill fails to cover all the organisations that it should cover. For example, the current definition does not cover cases in which land maintenance companies own the land but home owners are obliged to pay for its upkeep. During stage 1, there seemed to be almost complete consensus that the bill should cover those land maintenance models, but it appears that they are not covered in the current drafting.
If a factor or land maintenance company were removed from the register, unintended consequences would arise from section 9 in particular, if it stays as it is drafted. Some of the points are legal and some are practical. I know that many of the issues were raised in evidence to the committee, and Duncan McNeil mentioned some of them in his speech.
On the legal side, if a factor or land maintenance company were deregistered, there might still be obligations in the title deeds for residents to use and pay that factor. Surely the bill should say that any such obligations would cease to have effect. I have been advised that there are difficulties in the interactions between the bill and the terms of the Title Conditions (Scotland) Act 2003. I have written to Patricia Ferguson on that, and I hope that we can agree amendments at stage 2.
On the practical side, I will give one example of an issue that could arise if a factor were deregistered. If the body being deregistered were a land-owning land maintenance company, it is not clear what would happen to the ownership of the land and whether the residents would be entitled to appoint a new factor.
The third major issue about which we have concerns relates to dispute resolution. Many of the points have already been covered by Patricia Ferguson and Duncan McNeil. I will try to go into them in more detail in my wind-up speech but, generally speaking, we would prefer the adoption of an ombudsman system, such as the existing property ombudsman, rather than the proposal in the bill.
We are supportive of the bill in general terms. If the issues are addressed properly at stage 2, the bill can be improved dramatically and made much more effective. At the same time, we can proceed consensually with the aim of achieving the intended consequences of the provisions, rather than, as has happened too often in the past, unintended consequences that the Parliament subsequently has to correct. I agree with the committee that we should agree to the general principles of the bill, but let us work together to improve it substantially at stage 2.
16:01
The quality of service that some residential property managers provide is a matter of concern to the Parliament and the Government. Duncan McNeil and Patricia Ferguson have already expressed concern about that quality, and I know that previous Administrations over the past seven years felt that that was a problem.
Back in 2003, the housing improvement task force recommended that a national voluntary accreditation scheme for property managers should be set up. More recently, in 2009, the Office of Fair Trading published a report that concluded that some form of self-regulation of the industry should be introduced in order to improve the quality of services that are available to home owners. As members will be aware, the Scottish Government has acted on those recommendations to develop a voluntary accreditation scheme for property managers and land maintenance companies, but we now accept that a statutory approach is appropriate. As I have said to both Patricia Ferguson and the committee, we support the aims and general principles of the bill. Consensus is growing both within the chamber and outside it on a statutory approach to the regulation of the property management and land maintenance industry being required, and we are comfortable with that.
Although the Government, like the committee, supports the general principles of the bill, we believe that there are a number of issues that require greater clarity. Duncan McNeil made points about many of those issues on behalf of the committee. We believe that drafting improvements are required to make the bill more effective and to avoid unintended consequences, and that there are provisions in the bill that, if they are unaltered, are likely to be unworkable and run the risk of failing to live up to the consumer’s reasonable expectations for effective action.
Since the Government submitted its evidence to the committee in June, I have been consistent on the areas in the bill that require further consideration. Since then, I have set out in more detail to the committee and the member in charge of the bill the issues that require further consideration. I have already offered Patricia Ferguson the advice and support that my officials and I can provide to help her to make the bill as effective as possible and to achieve the aims that we all want to see achieved. A wide range of stakeholders have also offered their views and suggestions at stage 1 on how the bill could be improved. I am interested in hearing about the amendments that Patricia Ferguson proposes to lodge in light of all the input that she and the committee have received.
Amendments are required to a number of the bill’s provisions. The three principal challenges are: issues relating to the definition of “property factor”; the consequences of deregistration for both the factor and the consumer; and the means of dispute resolution, which Patricia Ferguson and Duncan McNeil have referred to.
We believe that the definition of “property factor” in the bill fails to cover all the organisations that it should cover. For example, the current definition does not cover cases in which land maintenance companies own the land but home owners are obliged to pay for its upkeep. During stage 1, there seemed to be almost complete consensus that the bill should cover those land maintenance models, but it appears that they are not covered in the current drafting.
If a factor or land maintenance company were removed from the register, unintended consequences would arise from section 9 in particular, if it stays as it is drafted. Some of the points are legal and some are practical. I know that many of the issues were raised in evidence to the committee, and Duncan McNeil mentioned some of them in his speech.
On the legal side, if a factor or land maintenance company were deregistered, there might still be obligations in the title deeds for residents to use and pay that factor. Surely the bill should say that any such obligations would cease to have effect. I have been advised that there are difficulties in the interactions between the bill and the terms of the Title Conditions (Scotland) Act 2003. I have written to Patricia Ferguson on that, and I hope that we can agree amendments at stage 2.
On the practical side, I will give one example of an issue that could arise if a factor were deregistered. If the body being deregistered were a land-owning land maintenance company, it is not clear what would happen to the ownership of the land and whether the residents would be entitled to appoint a new factor.
The third major issue about which we have concerns relates to dispute resolution. Many of the points have already been covered by Patricia Ferguson and Duncan McNeil. I will try to go into them in more detail in my wind-up speech but, generally speaking, we would prefer the adoption of an ombudsman system, such as the existing property ombudsman, rather than the proposal in the bill.
We are supportive of the bill in general terms. If the issues are addressed properly at stage 2, the bill can be improved dramatically and made much more effective. At the same time, we can proceed consensually with the aim of achieving the intended consequences of the provisions, rather than, as has happened too often in the past, unintended consequences that the Parliament subsequently has to correct. I agree with the committee that we should agree to the general principles of the bill, but let us work together to improve it substantially at stage 2.
16:01
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-7531, in the name of Patricia Ferguson, on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill. Time is fairly tight for...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased that we are debating the Local Government and Communities Committee’s stage 1 report on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill, and I would like t...
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to be taking part in the debate as convener of the Local Government and Communities Committee. We were the lead committee that looked at Patrici...
The Minister for Housing and Communities (Alex Neil)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to debate the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill, which was introduced to the Parliament by Patricia Ferguson. The Government recogni...
Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab)
Lab
I, too, am pleased to take part in the stage 1 debate on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson on getting the bill to this s...
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con)
Con
Like other members, I congratulate Patricia Ferguson, the bill’s sponsor, on her persistence and dedication in bringing this measure to Parliament and, I mig...
Jim Tolson (Dunfermline West) (LD)
LD
The Liberal Democrats welcome the member’s bill that Patricia Ferguson has introduced and offer our congratulations to her. I also congratulate the clerks, w...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
I, too, congratulate Patricia Ferguson and thank her for introducing the bill. As one of the original signatories to the bill proposal, I am pleased to speak...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab)
Lab
Like other members, I congratulate Patricia Ferguson on introducing her bill and getting it to stage 1. She should be commended for her hard work and diligen...
Elizabeth Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Stage 1 is an important staging post in assessing the many issues that are the origin of the bill. I pay tribute to Patricia Ferguson for the methodical mann...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
Does Elizabeth Smith accept that clarity on the point that she has just raised might make it easier for some people to accept liability for payments, and not...
Elizabeth Smith
Con
Mr Brown makes a valid point, and I and the Conservative party in general accept it. It is a strong message in the bill.The relationship between the property...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I thank Patricia Ferguson for introducing the bill, and I thank my fel...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
Factoring is an enormous issue in the new-build flats in my constituency, albeit not in the traditional tenements, which in Edinburgh have never had factors....
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee West) (SNP)
SNP
I echo others in the chamber in congratulating Patricia Ferguson on the bill, which touches on a subject that is of great concern to many of our constituents...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
On behalf of the Liberal Democrats, I praise Patricia Ferguson for introducing the bill and for the manner in which she has done so. Although this debate wil...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
The debate that we have had today and the process that led us to it form a good example of the Parliament at its best. I only wonder why it has taken us so l...
Mary Mulligan
Lab
This has been an excellent debate in which all members have made quite heartfelt pleas for legislation. That is not always the case in this chamber.As Jim To...
Alex Neil
SNP
This debate on the principles of the bill and the issues that are to be addressed at stage 2 has been good and consensual. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson a...
David McLetchie
Con
In relation to those figures—£2,000 a case and 220 cases a year for the private rented housing panel—is the minister convinced that the panel provides value ...
Alex Neil
SNP
The reality is that it is quasi-judicial. As Mr McLetchie will know, anything that is judicial, and particularly anything that involves lawyers, can be extre...
Robert Brown
LD
Will the minister take a further brief intervention on that?
Alex Neil
SNP
Of course, from another lawyer. Are they going to declare an interest, Presiding Officer?
Robert Brown
LD
The issue is about the need to have at the end of the process an enforceable order so that everybody knows where they stand. It is a judicial process and it ...
Alex Neil
SNP
The enforceable order would be the responsibility of other authorities and not necessarily the panel or ombudsman. My point is that there are a great deal of...
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I very much welcome the content and tone of the debate. I will try to respond as best I can to the issues that members have raised. The debate has demonstrat...
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
At the recent meeting that I referred to, it seemed that a large number of people were paying 35 per cent commission to factors for their insurance.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I would not dispute that. I have heard a variety of figures mentioned. I have also heard about what, in the trade, are loosely called gentlemen’s agreements,...