Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 08 December 2010
08 Dec 2010 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Property Factors (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am pleased to be taking part in the debate as convener of the Local Government and Communities Committee. We were the lead committee that looked at Patricia Ferguson’s bill. I thank all the witnesses who provided the committee with evidence and I express my thanks to my colleagues on the committee for their input. I also thank our hard-working clerks and researchers. I pay tribute to Patricia Ferguson for her work in bringing the bill to the Parliament.
As we all know from our constituency case load, problems with property factors are on the increase, and one of the problems is that the sector remains unregulated. The subject of the disputes that can arise between factors and their clients include the lack of financial transparency, hidden commissions and the unspecified charges to which Patricia Ferguson alluded. We have all heard of the £30 replacement light bulb and other such charges. However, property factors face a different set of problems, such as non-paying residents, absentee landlords who have little interest in their properties, and poor maintenance of common areas. Disputes can arise over relatively small matters, but they can escalate, occasionally as far as court proceedings.
One of the main proposals in the bill is that property factors will have to be registered. That will put them on the same footing as landlords in both the private and social rented sectors, who are subject to a statutory registration scheme. During its stage 1 consideration of the bill, the committee acknowledged the work that the Scottish Government and a stakeholder working group are doing to consider a national voluntary accreditation scheme for property factors. The stakeholder group believes that the voluntary scheme is so far forward in its development that it should be introduced, with a statutory scheme being delayed and implemented only if the voluntary scheme is unsuccessful. The counter-argument is that, unless a statutory scheme is introduced, factors who provide a poor service, who are the least likely to register, will continue to operate and provide an inadequate service to consumers, as no sanctions or standards of service will be set for unregistered property factors.
On the balance of the evidence, the committee agreed with the view that a voluntary accreditation scheme would ultimately be unsuccessful in dealing with the problem of so-called rogue factors. The committee therefore supports the introduction of a statutory framework as proposed in the bill.
We heard arguments that local authorities and registered social landlords should be exempt from paying a registration fee, but we recognise that, if those groups were exempt, more of a burden would fall on the remaining property factors. We also heard in evidence that RSLs are already subject to high levels of regulation and that the provisions in the bill would just add another layer of regulation. The committee took the view that, despite the continuing efforts to address the shortcomings in factoring services, tenants who live in social housing still have problems with RSLs and local authorities that provide such services, so they should be included in the definition of “property factor” in the bill. The committee also recognised that it is important that land maintenance companies are included in the definition. Although such companies manage, own and maintain land, the bottom line is that they are also property factors and have to be included.
The final sanction for property factors who continually fail to come up to scratch would be to take them off the register. However, the committee thought that that might lead to problems. Although we recognised that such a move would be a last resort, we felt that issues arose with regard to the area where a factor was deregistered. After all, a factor might have a number of clients over a wide geographical area and might be in serious dispute with a client group in one area but not in another. In evidence to the committee, the Minister for Housing and Communities summed up the difficulty when he said:
“if you deregister a local authority, which is quite possible under the bill, what happens? There is no answer.”—[Official Report, Local Government and Communities Committee, 22 September 2010; c 3470.]
Moreover, deregistration poses a number of complex legal issues with regard to maintenance companies that own the land and can be responsible for providing factoring services for woodland areas, sustainable drainage systems and other items of infrastructure. As a result, we felt that the bill had to be sufficiently clear to ensure that there were no unintended consequences, such as home owners being left without a factor or issues arising from deregistering a land-owning maintenance company. Indeed, as we know from our case load, those who do not have a factoring contract also look to us to help them to resolve some of these issues.
We know that the bill gives Scottish ministers the power to set the time and date for a factor to be taken off the register. However, although we acknowledge Patricia Ferguson’s argument that a date could be set that would give people enough time to make other arrangements to ensure they were not left without a factor and would allow anyone removed from the register to appeal the decision, we think that that might not be enough. As a result, we suggest that the member look at other solutions such as giving ministers the power to remove someone only when they are satisfied that transitional arrangements have been put in place. We look forward to representations being made and these issues being clarified by the member at stage 2.
A code of conduct will be key to improving property factors’ performance and, under the bill, ministers will be able to prepare such a code to set out the standards that are expected of the industry. That will definitely serve a useful role and help to drive up standards. However, because the code will be introduced through secondary legislation, the bill contains nothing that witnesses could comment on, and we support the requirement for ministers to consult on a code before it is laid before Parliament.
The failure to resolve disputes has been one of the biggest problems between factors and their clients. The committee heard about factors not responding to letters or phone calls, unitemised billing, unexplained charges and high insurance charges. Consumers are frustrated and feel that, unless they resort to court action, which as we know is unpredictable, very expensive and not very satisfactory, they are powerless. Property factors themselves feel similarly frustrated and, to break the cycle, the bill proposes a dispute resolution procedure through the creation of a home owner housing panel and home owner housing committee, which will be similar to the existing private rented housing panel and private rented housing committees. The minister said that he would prefer an ombudsman system to what is proposed in the bill.
There is clearly a need for some kind of dispute resolution procedure. However, in the current financial climate, we have to be aware of the costs to the public purse. Because the panel will be demand led, working out how much it will cost to set up has been problematic. That said, the same can be said of the ombudsman option and we have called on both the member and the minister to provide further information on both options.
Overall, we recognise that the bill’s main purpose is to create a statutory framework to protect the interests of home owners contracted to property factors and agree with the member that legislation is needed for such a scheme to work. Although we have highlighted a number of areas that need further consideration or amendment, we recommend that the bill’s general principles be agreed.
15:55
As we all know from our constituency case load, problems with property factors are on the increase, and one of the problems is that the sector remains unregulated. The subject of the disputes that can arise between factors and their clients include the lack of financial transparency, hidden commissions and the unspecified charges to which Patricia Ferguson alluded. We have all heard of the £30 replacement light bulb and other such charges. However, property factors face a different set of problems, such as non-paying residents, absentee landlords who have little interest in their properties, and poor maintenance of common areas. Disputes can arise over relatively small matters, but they can escalate, occasionally as far as court proceedings.
One of the main proposals in the bill is that property factors will have to be registered. That will put them on the same footing as landlords in both the private and social rented sectors, who are subject to a statutory registration scheme. During its stage 1 consideration of the bill, the committee acknowledged the work that the Scottish Government and a stakeholder working group are doing to consider a national voluntary accreditation scheme for property factors. The stakeholder group believes that the voluntary scheme is so far forward in its development that it should be introduced, with a statutory scheme being delayed and implemented only if the voluntary scheme is unsuccessful. The counter-argument is that, unless a statutory scheme is introduced, factors who provide a poor service, who are the least likely to register, will continue to operate and provide an inadequate service to consumers, as no sanctions or standards of service will be set for unregistered property factors.
On the balance of the evidence, the committee agreed with the view that a voluntary accreditation scheme would ultimately be unsuccessful in dealing with the problem of so-called rogue factors. The committee therefore supports the introduction of a statutory framework as proposed in the bill.
We heard arguments that local authorities and registered social landlords should be exempt from paying a registration fee, but we recognise that, if those groups were exempt, more of a burden would fall on the remaining property factors. We also heard in evidence that RSLs are already subject to high levels of regulation and that the provisions in the bill would just add another layer of regulation. The committee took the view that, despite the continuing efforts to address the shortcomings in factoring services, tenants who live in social housing still have problems with RSLs and local authorities that provide such services, so they should be included in the definition of “property factor” in the bill. The committee also recognised that it is important that land maintenance companies are included in the definition. Although such companies manage, own and maintain land, the bottom line is that they are also property factors and have to be included.
The final sanction for property factors who continually fail to come up to scratch would be to take them off the register. However, the committee thought that that might lead to problems. Although we recognised that such a move would be a last resort, we felt that issues arose with regard to the area where a factor was deregistered. After all, a factor might have a number of clients over a wide geographical area and might be in serious dispute with a client group in one area but not in another. In evidence to the committee, the Minister for Housing and Communities summed up the difficulty when he said:
“if you deregister a local authority, which is quite possible under the bill, what happens? There is no answer.”—[Official Report, Local Government and Communities Committee, 22 September 2010; c 3470.]
Moreover, deregistration poses a number of complex legal issues with regard to maintenance companies that own the land and can be responsible for providing factoring services for woodland areas, sustainable drainage systems and other items of infrastructure. As a result, we felt that the bill had to be sufficiently clear to ensure that there were no unintended consequences, such as home owners being left without a factor or issues arising from deregistering a land-owning maintenance company. Indeed, as we know from our case load, those who do not have a factoring contract also look to us to help them to resolve some of these issues.
We know that the bill gives Scottish ministers the power to set the time and date for a factor to be taken off the register. However, although we acknowledge Patricia Ferguson’s argument that a date could be set that would give people enough time to make other arrangements to ensure they were not left without a factor and would allow anyone removed from the register to appeal the decision, we think that that might not be enough. As a result, we suggest that the member look at other solutions such as giving ministers the power to remove someone only when they are satisfied that transitional arrangements have been put in place. We look forward to representations being made and these issues being clarified by the member at stage 2.
A code of conduct will be key to improving property factors’ performance and, under the bill, ministers will be able to prepare such a code to set out the standards that are expected of the industry. That will definitely serve a useful role and help to drive up standards. However, because the code will be introduced through secondary legislation, the bill contains nothing that witnesses could comment on, and we support the requirement for ministers to consult on a code before it is laid before Parliament.
The failure to resolve disputes has been one of the biggest problems between factors and their clients. The committee heard about factors not responding to letters or phone calls, unitemised billing, unexplained charges and high insurance charges. Consumers are frustrated and feel that, unless they resort to court action, which as we know is unpredictable, very expensive and not very satisfactory, they are powerless. Property factors themselves feel similarly frustrated and, to break the cycle, the bill proposes a dispute resolution procedure through the creation of a home owner housing panel and home owner housing committee, which will be similar to the existing private rented housing panel and private rented housing committees. The minister said that he would prefer an ombudsman system to what is proposed in the bill.
There is clearly a need for some kind of dispute resolution procedure. However, in the current financial climate, we have to be aware of the costs to the public purse. Because the panel will be demand led, working out how much it will cost to set up has been problematic. That said, the same can be said of the ombudsman option and we have called on both the member and the minister to provide further information on both options.
Overall, we recognise that the bill’s main purpose is to create a statutory framework to protect the interests of home owners contracted to property factors and agree with the member that legislation is needed for such a scheme to work. Although we have highlighted a number of areas that need further consideration or amendment, we recommend that the bill’s general principles be agreed.
15:55
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-7531, in the name of Patricia Ferguson, on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill. Time is fairly tight for...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased that we are debating the Local Government and Communities Committee’s stage 1 report on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill, and I would like t...
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to be taking part in the debate as convener of the Local Government and Communities Committee. We were the lead committee that looked at Patrici...
The Minister for Housing and Communities (Alex Neil)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to debate the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill, which was introduced to the Parliament by Patricia Ferguson. The Government recogni...
Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab)
Lab
I, too, am pleased to take part in the stage 1 debate on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson on getting the bill to this s...
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con)
Con
Like other members, I congratulate Patricia Ferguson, the bill’s sponsor, on her persistence and dedication in bringing this measure to Parliament and, I mig...
Jim Tolson (Dunfermline West) (LD)
LD
The Liberal Democrats welcome the member’s bill that Patricia Ferguson has introduced and offer our congratulations to her. I also congratulate the clerks, w...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
I, too, congratulate Patricia Ferguson and thank her for introducing the bill. As one of the original signatories to the bill proposal, I am pleased to speak...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab)
Lab
Like other members, I congratulate Patricia Ferguson on introducing her bill and getting it to stage 1. She should be commended for her hard work and diligen...
Elizabeth Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Stage 1 is an important staging post in assessing the many issues that are the origin of the bill. I pay tribute to Patricia Ferguson for the methodical mann...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
Does Elizabeth Smith accept that clarity on the point that she has just raised might make it easier for some people to accept liability for payments, and not...
Elizabeth Smith
Con
Mr Brown makes a valid point, and I and the Conservative party in general accept it. It is a strong message in the bill.The relationship between the property...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I thank Patricia Ferguson for introducing the bill, and I thank my fel...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
Factoring is an enormous issue in the new-build flats in my constituency, albeit not in the traditional tenements, which in Edinburgh have never had factors....
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee West) (SNP)
SNP
I echo others in the chamber in congratulating Patricia Ferguson on the bill, which touches on a subject that is of great concern to many of our constituents...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
On behalf of the Liberal Democrats, I praise Patricia Ferguson for introducing the bill and for the manner in which she has done so. Although this debate wil...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
The debate that we have had today and the process that led us to it form a good example of the Parliament at its best. I only wonder why it has taken us so l...
Mary Mulligan
Lab
This has been an excellent debate in which all members have made quite heartfelt pleas for legislation. That is not always the case in this chamber.As Jim To...
Alex Neil
SNP
This debate on the principles of the bill and the issues that are to be addressed at stage 2 has been good and consensual. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson a...
David McLetchie
Con
In relation to those figures—£2,000 a case and 220 cases a year for the private rented housing panel—is the minister convinced that the panel provides value ...
Alex Neil
SNP
The reality is that it is quasi-judicial. As Mr McLetchie will know, anything that is judicial, and particularly anything that involves lawyers, can be extre...
Robert Brown
LD
Will the minister take a further brief intervention on that?
Alex Neil
SNP
Of course, from another lawyer. Are they going to declare an interest, Presiding Officer?
Robert Brown
LD
The issue is about the need to have at the end of the process an enforceable order so that everybody knows where they stand. It is a judicial process and it ...
Alex Neil
SNP
The enforceable order would be the responsibility of other authorities and not necessarily the panel or ombudsman. My point is that there are a great deal of...
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I very much welcome the content and tone of the debate. I will try to respond as best I can to the issues that members have raised. The debate has demonstrat...
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
At the recent meeting that I referred to, it seemed that a large number of people were paying 35 per cent commission to factors for their insurance.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I would not dispute that. I have heard a variety of figures mentioned. I have also heard about what, in the trade, are loosely called gentlemen’s agreements,...