Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 18 November 2010
18 Nov 2010 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Alternative Vote Referendum Date
Are Brian Adam and his SNP colleagues really so lacking in confidence in their ability to articulate their views to the Scottish people? That is about the respect agenda—they are not treating the Scottish people with respect.
If the Electoral Commission says that it feels “broadly satisfied” that our returning officers are up to the task of running a joint poll, and if we know that it will increase voter turnout, what could be the reason for SNP and Labour Party objections to the proposal? Pretending that the issue is to do with the campaign is interesting—what is it about the campaign that the SNP is really worried about?
The Liberal Democrats believe that the benefits of holding the votes on the same day far outweigh reasonable objections. I challenge the myth, about which we have heard already, that the Gould report argued against the joint poll. What the Gould report actually said was that there are benefits to holding elections on the same day. It said that there was
“very little evidence to support the argument that the simultaneous local government election using STV contributed substantially to the higher rejection rates in the Scottish parliamentary election.”
I have no problem whatsoever with holding the UK general election and our Scottish parliamentary election on the same day in 2015. I think it is eminently sensible for the UK Government to ask us in this chamber about that—if two thirds of us want to change the timing of our elections, that should be up to us.
The Gould report said that the SNP’s tactic of calling itself “Alex Salmond for First Minister” was confusing. That was raised consistently as a problem and it was one of the reasons for so many spoilt ballot papers at the previous election. Despite that, Nicola Sturgeon, who I know is not here, said:
“I don’t accept that caused confusion”.
She also said that the nationalists played no part in what went wrong and called Mr Gould’s point “ridiculous”. I did not hear that word being used about Mr Gould today.
I suppose that I should not be surprised by the SNP saying that the situation was not its fault. After all, we get that from Mr Salmond at First Minister’s question time each week—and today was no different.
I am afraid that Labour’s position is also bizarre to me. Labour, like us, rightly criticised the waste of taxpayers’ money on the SNP’s referendum plans—or rather, the SNP’s lack of referendum plans—while failing to recognise the savings of £17 million of taxpayers’ money—
If the Electoral Commission says that it feels “broadly satisfied” that our returning officers are up to the task of running a joint poll, and if we know that it will increase voter turnout, what could be the reason for SNP and Labour Party objections to the proposal? Pretending that the issue is to do with the campaign is interesting—what is it about the campaign that the SNP is really worried about?
The Liberal Democrats believe that the benefits of holding the votes on the same day far outweigh reasonable objections. I challenge the myth, about which we have heard already, that the Gould report argued against the joint poll. What the Gould report actually said was that there are benefits to holding elections on the same day. It said that there was
“very little evidence to support the argument that the simultaneous local government election using STV contributed substantially to the higher rejection rates in the Scottish parliamentary election.”
I have no problem whatsoever with holding the UK general election and our Scottish parliamentary election on the same day in 2015. I think it is eminently sensible for the UK Government to ask us in this chamber about that—if two thirds of us want to change the timing of our elections, that should be up to us.
The Gould report said that the SNP’s tactic of calling itself “Alex Salmond for First Minister” was confusing. That was raised consistently as a problem and it was one of the reasons for so many spoilt ballot papers at the previous election. Despite that, Nicola Sturgeon, who I know is not here, said:
“I don’t accept that caused confusion”.
She also said that the nationalists played no part in what went wrong and called Mr Gould’s point “ridiculous”. I did not hear that word being used about Mr Gould today.
I suppose that I should not be surprised by the SNP saying that the situation was not its fault. After all, we get that from Mr Salmond at First Minister’s question time each week—and today was no different.
I am afraid that Labour’s position is also bizarre to me. Labour, like us, rightly criticised the waste of taxpayers’ money on the SNP’s referendum plans—or rather, the SNP’s lack of referendum plans—while failing to recognise the savings of £17 million of taxpayers’ money—
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-7427, in the name of Jim Mather, on the alternative vote referendum and 2011 Scottish Parliament election...
The Minister for Enterprise, Energy and Tourism (Jim Mather)
SNP
This is our first debate on electoral matters since I took portfolio responsibility for elections. It comes at a time when we are a mere six months away from...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
Does the minister regard the American system, in which people vote for Presidents, members of Congress and everything down to dog-catchers on the same day, a...
Jim Mather
SNP
There was a time when the American electoral system might have been held up as a good example here, but I am afraid that those days have gone.There is preced...
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con)
Con
In an ideal world, there would of course be no coincidence in the dates for holding elections to our Parliaments or councils or for the conduct of referenda....
Jim Mather
SNP
Is the member saying that an ideal world would mean no clash of dates?
David McLetchie
Con
I said that, in an ideal world, it would be possible to timetable different dates. However, I also pointed out that this is not an ideal or perfect world, an...
Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
David McLetchie
Con
No. I want to make some progress.Let us be clear that it was always possible to have dates that coincided, even when not by deliberate design: on many occasi...
Brian Adam (Aberdeen North) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
David McLetchie
Con
No, thank you.I know that £17 million is small beer in the grand scheme of the gargantuan debts and deficits that were left behind by the Labour Government b...
Maureen Watt (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
David McLetchie
Con
No—I am in my last minute.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
The member has time if he wishes.
David McLetchie
Con
Do I? Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. By all means, then, I will take an intervention.
Maureen Watt
SNP
Will the member acknowledge that the Electoral Commission said:“The rules on how the referendum will be conducted must be clear from at least six months in a...
David McLetchie
Con
The member might want to get picky about a few dates here and there, but I do not really think that it will be too difficult, even for an SNP brain, to work ...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)
LD
The Scottish Liberal Democrats support the decision to hold a fairer vote referendum on the same day as the Scottish parliamentary elections. Holding the two...
Jim Mather
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?Margaret Curran rose—
Mike Rumbles
LD
I ask members to let me get started—we do not normally intervene in the first minute of a speech.I hope that everyone in the chamber will think that saving t...
Margaret Curran
Lab
Will the member give way?
Mike Rumbles
LD
Oh, go on.
Margaret Curran
Lab
I am so grateful to the member for taking my intervention.On the respect agenda, if the member’s arguments are so strong, surely he agrees that it was incumb...
Mike Rumbles
LD
I think that the so-called respect agenda is interesting and I will address it in more detail in just a minute.Despite the misgivings of both the SNP and the...
Brian Adam
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mike Rumbles
LD
I have already given way.
Brian Adam
SNP
Once.
Mike Rumbles
LD
I give way to Brian Adam.
Brian Adam
SNP
I am grateful to the member for giving way a second time.Does the member agree that it is not just casting the votes on the day that is important, but the de...
Mike Rumbles
LD
Are Brian Adam and his SNP colleagues really so lacking in confidence in their ability to articulate their views to the Scottish people? That is about the re...