Committee
Justice Committee 27 April 2010
27 Apr 2010 · S3 · Justice Committee
Item of business
Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Robert Brown
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Margaret Curran has raised a very interesting issue. The Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 2003, which a previous Government introduced, brought in victim statements at the sentencing stage and gave victims the right to make written representations to the Parole Board when it is considering releasing someone on licence. That is entirely right and I think that it helps to put victims’ concerns at the heart of the process, which was often seen previously as something that did not really concern them.I have no doctrinal view on the right to be heard by the Parole Board. I do not think that we have had any particular evidence on that one way or the other. The questions that occur to me are whether it would create any considerable cost or bureaucracy in the system and whether it would provide any advantage to most victims. Manifestly, the question of release cannot depend on the victim of one criminal believing that the offender should be detained for ever, while the victim of another offender is in a rather more forgiving camp. However, evidence that the offender would be liberated to an address two doors away from the victim or that the victim is still suffering physical or psychological trauma as a result of the crime would be highly relevant. I am not sure whether the presence of the victim at the hearing would be required or whether most victims would regard such an opportunity as a good thing. Another issue is the extension of advice facilities for people to allow them to make effective written representation.Having said that, I know that victims have been allowed to attend parole hearings in England and that the process has subsequently been formalised—a number of people have taken advantage of that opportunity. The Parole Board for England and Wales recognised that the right to be heard was significant for some victims. It said that the process was inclusive but could be “emotionally difficult for victims and offenders alike.”It also made the point strongly that it is absolutely necessary that victims understand the context of and the limitations to the right to be heard.In short, there is a case for such a change, but I want to be reassured by the Government that amendment 403 gets it right. I want to hear the minister’s view before I decide my approach.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Agenda item 2 is the principal business of the day—the fifth day of stage 2 proceedings on the Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Bill. The committee ...
The Convener
Amendment 379, in the name of Robert Brown, is grouped with amendments 126, 127, 389 and 549. If amendment 379 is agreed to, amendments 126 and 127 will be p...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
Scotland has—notoriously—the lowest age of criminal responsibility in Europe. The idea of prosecuting a child of eight—or, indeed, of 11—is abhorrent and rid...
The Convener
I concede that this is a complex and difficult matter. All the amendments in the group deal with the age of criminal responsibility or the age at which child...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab)
As this is my final amendment at stage 2, I thank the clerks for all their assistance during the process.The convener has alluded to the fact that the issues...
Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP)
I will start where Richard Baker left off. I agree with his closing comments, in which he made some valid points about the age of criminal responsibility. Al...
Angela Constance (Livingston) (SNP)
It will come as no surprise to anybody on the committee that I have considerable sympathy for Robert Brown’s amendment 379. Although the children’s hearings ...
The Convener
There being no further comments from members, I ask the minister to defend himself to Ms Constance.
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing)
I am happy to take up that kind invitation, convener. I welcome all members’ contributions to the debate. This is a difficult and sensitive issue, as members...
Robert Brown
I am particularly reassured by the minister’s final comment. We are, perhaps, all left a little bit perplexed about the difference between raising the age of...
The Convener
It is an important issue and it is appropriate that it be debated as thoroughly as possible. The question is, that amendment 379 be agreed to. Are we agreed?...
The Convener
There will be a division.ForBrown, Robert (Glasgow) (LD)AgainstAitken, Bill (Glasgow) (Con)Butler, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab)Constance, Angela (Livingst...
The Convener
The result of the division is: For 1, Against 7, Abstentions 0.Amendment 379 disagreed to.Amendment 126 moved—Bill Aitken.
The Convener
The question is, that amendment 126 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener
There will be a division.ForAitken, Bill (Glasgow) (Con)AgainstBrown, Robert (Glasgow) (LD)Butler, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab)Constance, Angela (Livingst...
The Convener
The result of the division is: For 1, Against 7, Abstentions 0.Amendment 126 disagreed to.Amendment 127 not moved.
Richard Baker
Given what has been said about the maths, and in light of the reassurances that have been given, I will not move amendment 389.Amendment 389 not moved.Sectio...
The Convener
Amendment 128, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, is grouped with amendment 129.
Fergus Ewing
Many statutes provide that when a body corporate is guilty of an offence, and it is proved that the offence was committed with the consent or connivance of a...
The Convener
As other members have no comments, I will make some of my own. The amendments in this group are predicated on the need to plug a loophole that seems to exist...
The Convener
Amendment 130, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, is grouped with amendment 131.
Fergus Ewing
Amendment 130 is a minor technical amendment, the purpose of which is to change the current reference to “all reasonable hours” in section 40(2)(b) to “a rea...
The Convener
The purpose of amendment 131 was to probe exactly how this was going to pan out at the end of the day. I was seeking to avoid evidence in court being valued ...
Robert Brown
This is a difficult area—there are no two ways about it. One must be cautious about making significant changes in procedures that have applied for a long tim...
James Kelly (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab)
I support the amendment in the name of the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and the sentiments that the minister expressed in his contribution. Being required t...
The Convener
Amendment 403, in the name of Margaret Curran, is in a group on its own. I apologise to Margaret for the fact that she came to last week’s meeting but was un...
Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab)
It has been most illuminating to be here. I thank the clerks for their assistance in drafting amendment 403. The amendment is simple but significant. It repr...
Robert Brown
Margaret Curran has raised a very interesting issue. The Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 2003, which a previous Government introduced, brought in victim stat...
Angela Constance
I cannot imagine that anybody round the table would be unsympathetic to the need to create more opportunities for victims to be heard at various points in th...
James Kelly
Margaret Curran has lodged an important amendment, which I support.I would like to address a specific issue that is not the same as the one that Margaret Cur...