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Chamber

Plenary, 27 Jan 2010

27 Jan 2010 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Tobacco and Primary Medical Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Scanlon, Mary Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV
We all agree on the link between smoking and poor health, and we all agree on the fact that the younger that people start smoking, the more acute their health problems in later life will be. Our opposition to the ban on tobacco displays is not an opposition to smoking cessation programmes. The fact is that the evidence base does not exist to support a ban. The Health and Sport Committee's stage 1 report states:

"The Committee notes that strong views were advanced on both sides of the debate. The Committee also recognises that the evidence base for this proposal is at an early stage and that the international evidence to date is inconclusive."

The Government proposes to ban visual displays in the hope that doing so will produce an evidence base in support of its argument that such a measure will reduce smoking. There is not yet conclusive evidence that the ban will achieve what it sets out to achieve. The claim in the policy memorandum that banning visual displays of cigarettes will

"protect children and young people from the impact of tobacco smoking"

is, therefore, not true. Although a ban on visual displays will put cigarette packets out of sight, there is no doubt that the Government needs to consider many other measures to make the policy successful. I can think of nothing less attractive than a product that states "Smoking kills".

As the Scottish Retail Consortium, the Scottish Grocers Federation and the National Federation of Retail Newsagents said in their briefing note detailing their joint positions:

"We believe that this will be a disproportionate measure for all affected retailers, large and small, and will add an undue burden on retail staff. It has no strong evidence base and there is doubt that it will have a significant impact on the number of young people taking up smoking."

In Iceland, smoking rates have declined, but academics have identified the in-depth work that has been done at community level as the crucial aspect in the successful decline in the number of people who smoke. In Canada, states such as Saskatchewan and Manitoba that have had tobacco display bans for the longest time have seen increases in youth smoking. In Ontario, the greatest reduction in smoking was achieved before a ban was introduced. In New Zealand, a proposal to introduce a ban was rejected by the Prime Minister, whose Government, like this Parliament's Health and Sport Committee, did not find conclusive evidence that a ban was the most effective strategy for combating youth smoking.

Finally, on the cost of the ban to businesses, there is also much dubiety. The Minister for Public Health and Sport told the Health and Sport Committee that the cost could be as little as £20 per gantry. However, that is just the cost of materials per shelf, not per gantry, and there can be up to seven or eight shelves on a gantry, as well as other fittings. The Scottish Government's regulatory impact assessment estimated that implementing the ban would cost Scotland's 11,000 tobacco outlets an average of £1,200 for small retailers, £6,000 for medium-sized retailers and £17,500 for large retailers.

I ask MSPs whether, in these difficult times, they are content to force on small businesses throughout Scotland additional costs and a measure on which there is a lack of any evidence to show its effectiveness in reducing youth smoking.

I move amendment 4.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson): NPA
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Tobacco and Primary Medical Services (Scotland) Bill. For dealing with the amendments, members should...
Section 1—Prohibition of tobacco displays etc
The Presiding Officer: NPA
Group 1 is prohibition of tobacco displays et cetera. Amendment 4, in the name of Mary Scanlon, is grouped with amendments 29, 29A, 30, 5, 6, 31, 32, 7 to 10...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): Con
We all agree on the link between smoking and poor health, and we all agree on the fact that the younger that people start smoking, the more acute their healt...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab): Lab
I draw members' attention to my membership of the Royal College of General Practitioners and the British Medical Association, in case that is relevant.Amendm...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind): Ind
Is there evidence to show how a campaign to reduce smoking among young people should be presented to achieve a successful result? Should smoking be presented...
Dr Simpson: Lab
As far as what we are trying to do in the bill is concerned, the important thing is to denormalise tobacco as a product—to make it something that is not seen...
Ross Finnie (West of Scotland) (LD): LD
On section 1, Mary Scanlon has been entirely consistent in her argumentation at all stages of the bill, especially in committee. The Liberal Democrats' posit...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab): Lab
Labour, too, opposes all of Mary Scanlon's amendments. We do so because we are persuaded that point-of-sale displays are becoming increasingly important to m...
The Minister for Public Health and Sport (Shona Robison): SNP
I am encouraged by the fact that all parties agree that firm action is required to prevent children and young people from becoming smokers. The tobacco displ...
The Presiding Officer: NPA
I call Mary Scanlon to wind up and either press or withdraw amendment 4.
Mary Scanlon: Con
I was sympathetic to Richard Simpson's amendments but, when I read what the briefings said about overly complicating the bill, I decided that it would be a m...
The Presiding Officer: NPA
The question is, that amendment 4 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Presiding Officer: NPA
There will be a division. I suspend the meeting for five minutes.
Meeting suspended.
On resuming—
The Presiding Officer: NPA
We will proceed with the division.
ForAitken, Bill (Glasgow) (Con) Brocklebank, Ted (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Brown, Gavin (Lothians) (Con) Brownlee, Derek (South of Scotland) (Con) Carlaw...
The Presiding Officer: NPA
The result of the division is: For 14, Against 103, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 4 disagreed to.
After section 1
Amendment 29 moved—Dr Richard Simpson.
Amendment 29A moved—Dr Richard Simpson—and agreed to.
The Presiding Officer: NPA
The question is, that amendment 29, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Presiding Officer: NPA
There will be a division.
ForAlexander, Ms Wendy (Paisley North) (Lab) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Baker, Richard (North East Scotlan...
The Presiding Officer: NPA
The result of the division is: For 60, Against 60, Abstentions 0. I will therefore use my casting vote. In this case, the status quo is the bill, and the ame...
Amendment 29, as amended, disagreed to.