Hansard

Tom McCabe Lab Chamber

17 Mar 2011

Scottish Executive Question Time · Public Safety

I appreciate the minister’s answer, but within a square mile of that tragic murder there have been around eight murders over the past 18 months. My local paper can report on four murders over a six-week period, and page after page reports violent crime. The police tell us that...

Tom McCabe (Hamilton South) (Lab) Lab Chamber

17 Mar 2011

Scottish Executive Question Time · Public Safety

2. To ask the Scottish Executive, in light of recent events such as the murder of Reamonn Gormley, what measures it will bring forward to improve safety on Scotland’s streets. (S3O-13351)

Tom McCabe (Hamilton South) (Lab) Lab Chamber

10 Mar 2011

Scotland Bill

When we discussed the Scotland Bill previously, some feared that our parliamentary committee would do nothing more than rubber stamp the bill that is currently going through Westminster. That was an underestimation of the committee convener’s tenacity and her track record on t...

Tom McCabe (Hamilton South) (Lab) Lab Chamber

09 Mar 2011

“Report on preventative spending”

As others have done, I acknowledge Andrew Welsh’s service. I will not repeat all the plaudits. I simply say to him that he should be proud of his public service over a long number of years and of the way in which he chaired the Finance Committee and steered the report to its f...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

01 Mar 2011

Decision on Taking Business in Private

No you don’t. We would like to record the fact that this is your final meeting in public in this parliamentary session. People are aware that you have decided not to contest the next election and that you have decided to give yourself a bit more time for other things. We want ...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

01 Mar 2011

Subordinate Legislation

I assume that that is an area that you continue to discuss with the Treasury.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

01 Mar 2011

Subordinate Legislation

I have a few reservations about what you have said, cabinet secretary, but my main one is that at least under the old system we eventually got to a point at which we could quantify the EYF. We knew what was lying in the Treasury and we had to go into negotiations to try to get...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

01 Mar 2011

Subordinate Legislation

That is what I was coming to next. It has not exactly been clear what the arrangements are with regard to what was traditionally called end-year flexibility, although I suppose that phrase is quite old now.What do you understand the system to be from now on? I know that in the...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

01 Mar 2011

Subordinate Legislation

You can see how a member of the public might think that the way in which we use those figures is all smoke and mirrors. Are you saying that you have given the Treasury your best estimate of what is going to come in under this year, and it has agreed to a carryover of £130 mill...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

01 Mar 2011

Subordinate Legislation

In effect, we are moving the pain. Those figures show that about £85 million of work did not take place in this financial year, which you hope to move into the next financial year. Is that right?

Tom McCabe (Hamilton South) (Lab) Lab Committee

01 Mar 2011

Subordinate Legislation

I am afraid that my questions are on a similar theme. The brief guide to the spring budget revision tells me that the“Underspend contributing to corporate budget reduction in Transport”was £51 million and that the underspend on Scottish Water was £34 million. Are those figures...

Tom McCabe Lab Chamber

03 Feb 2011

Scottish Executive Question Time · Further and Higher Education (Courses)

I appreciate that answer. However, my concerns are around the introduction of subjectivity or elitism in the definition of core places. There are many courses available, particularly at college level, that allow young people to pursue a range of careers that are beneficial and...

Tom McCabe (Hamilton South) (Lab) Lab Chamber

03 Feb 2011

Scottish Executive Question Time · Further and Higher Education (Courses)

3. To ask the Scottish Executive what reassurance it can give that maintenance of core places in higher and further education will also fully maintain the diversity and volume of courses available to students. (S3O-12880)

Tom McCabe Lab Chamber

26 Jan 2011

Budget (Scotland) (No 5) Bill: Stage 1

Although the cabinet secretary was open about the fact that there would be less public sector employment, I asked him to be specific about how much public sector employment would be lost as a consequence of the budget.

Tom McCabe (Hamilton South) (Lab) Lab Chamber

26 Jan 2011

Budget (Scotland) (No 5) Bill: Stage 1

The draft budget for 2011-12 was always going to be a more difficult and contentious affair than those for previous years. It is presented at a time of unprecedented financial upheaval for the Parliament and precedes a prolonged period of financial constraint, the like of whic...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

According to the briefing note to incoming ministers on 14 May 2007, the answer is yes, because that note directly contradicts the view that you have described. Ministers were told of 90 per cent functionality in 2008-09 and 100 per cent functionality in subsequent years. You ...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

Oh, they meant that—I think I wrote that. Laughter.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

No. I was minuted in as Minister for Parliament. That is part of the minuting process when such matters are discussed in Government. However, I was outwith the process—

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

I concur with what has been said about negotiations at different times. The G8 meeting is a good example. It is fair to say that discussions on the matter were pretty robust. In a negotiation we play our hand as far as we can. If we reach a point at which we think that the han...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

At no point did I understand that HMRC was unwilling to collect the tax. From a purely practical point of view, it always made clear that the infrastructure to allow accurate collection would need to be in place.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

It may have been a simple oversight—the agreement was in operation, but at some point someone may have discovered that there was no signature on it. There was always clarity that the agreement was in operation.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

There is a slight difficulty in answering the question. I have no reason to suspect that any papers have been deliberately omitted, but finance ministers receive an enormous volume of paper, not all of it 100 per cent necessary. It would be near impossible for any human being ...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

My assumption is that, because he could not collect 100 per cent of the tax, Mr Swinney determined that he had not inherited a functional system. Perhaps it would have been more accurate if he had inserted the word “fully”, but he did not.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

No, there was no formal minute. However, as I said, I was aware that discussions were taking place.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

No, there was nothing in that detail. As I said, I knew that discussions were on-going. As I said earlier, I did not inquire about the position for any incoming Administration. I was given the assurance that there would be operability of at least 90 per cent of the SVR but tha...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

I could not be precise about dates but I knew that discussions were under way.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

It is entirely consistent.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

Mr Kerr summed it up when he spoke about loose language, which was being used to try to obscure the situation. When I was growing up, we used a mothball to preserve something that we regarded as precious. The term could be seen in a positive sense as well as in a negative one.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

The cabinet secretary is trying to throw red herrings into the situation. I would have had a lot more respect for him if he had simply come to Parliament and acknowledged the decision that he had made. Like my colleagues, I have personal awareness of the post. It is one where ...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

Similar to my colleagues, I was obviously aware of the agreements that were in place and the approach that had been taken. I was a member of the first Cabinet when Lord McConnell as finance minister brought the proposals forward and subsequently took them to Parliament. I was ...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

Not very much, because of the decision that the incoming finance minister subsequently took.14:00

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

They did check and they did know the current state. As I said, officials were in discussion with HMRC in March and April 2007. As a result of those discussions, they presented a ministerial briefing note on 14 May 2007 to incoming ministers that told them that there was 90 per...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

I must say that never at any time during my tenure was there an indication of anything other than a 10-month state of readiness. I would have fully expected senior civil servants to inform us if anything other than that had been the case—and they never did.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

There was a memorandum of understanding, and the basis of the payment was that there would be functionality. The difference in 2007 was that the organisation that collects tax in the United Kingdom decided to overhaul its entire IT system—that was the material difference in 20...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

Yes.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

If that is what she said, convener, she may have been confused. Her reply contradicts the ministerial briefing note that was given to incoming ministers on 14 May 2007, which specifically said that full functionality would be available in financial year 2009-10.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

I might be able to clarify that. As I said, the position was that the discussions were on-going. Officials were not in a position in which they felt that they could brief ministers on the stage that the discussions had reached. It was always clear that there was time for an in...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

As I said, I was aware that discussions were on-going. I was never under any illusion that if there was to be a substantial overhaul of the infrastructure for collecting tax throughout the United Kingdom, a cost would be attached to that. I have enough experience in Government...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

I am sure that the committee understands the chronology, but it is probably important to clarify it. An incoming Administration may announce its intentions in May. Those intentions will then shape the draft budget that it presents later in the year. That is the right order of ...

Tom McCabe (Hamilton South) (Lab) Lab Committee

25 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

Good afternoon, everyone. Papers on the Scottish variable rate that the former finance ministers who are present today have requested and papers that the Scottish Government has released show that the Scottish variable rate was always in a state of readiness from 1999 until th...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

20 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

You are clear in your mind that there are two completely separate issues: there is the issue of how much investment would be required to bring in full operability of the SVR in the future; and there is the separate question of a claim that says, “I gave serious consideration t...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

20 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

Just for clarification, whether the investment is £25 million or even rises to £50 million, it would produce a yield of around £1 billion a year, if the full 3p tax were implemented, for the next five or six fiscal years. An investment of even the higher figure of £50 million ...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

20 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

I think that you have said that you were not aware that the cabinet secretary had already indicated that no formal correspondence between the Scottish Government and HMRC was necessary. Therefore, your concern was not heightened. When you wrote the letter, were you taking quit...

Tom McCabe (Hamilton South) (Lab) Lab Committee

20 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

Perhaps we should clarify what we heard last week and what we already know. The ministerial briefing note that was issued to incoming ministers on 14 May 2007 made it clear that, if they took a decision before 7 June, SVR would be operable to around 90 per cent of its capacity...

Tom McCabe Lab Chamber

20 Jan 2011

Scottish Executive Question Time · Sewage Treatment Works (Bothwell Road)

I appreciate the minister’s offer, and I will take it up. We have already arranged a telephone conference.The odour is an intermittent problem that depends on weather conditions, but it generates a fair degree of concern among residents.

Tom McCabe (Hamilton South) (Lab) Lab Chamber

20 Jan 2011

Scottish Executive Question Time · Sewage Treatment Works (Bothwell Road)

4. To ask the Scottish Executive what action it can take to ensure the elimination of the noxious odours that emit from the sewage treatment works at Bothwell Road in Hamilton. (S3O-12650)

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

11 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

But it was possible to implement the system in 2008—you could have done it.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

11 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

Yes, but any system that is based on residence has that difficulty. Local councils have that difficulty given that around 10 per cent of people move each year and it is difficult to trace people. Any system that is based on residence will always be sub-optimal to some degree. ...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

11 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

That does not entirely concur with the briefing note that was supplied to Scottish ministers in May 2007, which stated that, provided that they committed to the £3.4 million before a date in June, the 10-month state of readiness could be maintained.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

11 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

In 2007, you required to upgrade your IT systems, which had been in place for a period of time. Had the Scottish Government decided in May 2007 to pay the estimated charge of about £3.4 million—I appreciate that that is an estimate—would you have been ready to implement the SV...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

11 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

As long as there was an IT set-up sitting beside that, you could have implemented the SVR within 10 months. Is that correct?

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

11 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

The £50,000 a year maintained the database and the information that was necessary.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

11 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

In other words, in 1999, or perhaps more correctly in 2003, it cost £50,000 a year to maintain the 10-month readiness—I understand that the Scottish Executive paid that—but in 2007 it would have cost more. It would have required approximately £3.4 million.

Tom McCabe (Hamilton South) (Lab) Lab Committee

11 Jan 2011

Scottish Variable Rate Inquiry

Good afternoon. Let me take you back to 2007. This is important. The current Scottish Government says that it did not inherit an operational system. You can correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that, in the years prior to 2007, the 10-month notice meant that, if a...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

14 Dec 2010

Scotland’s Spending Plans and Draft Budget 2011-12

Finally, are you saying that a decision to cut the budgets of SNH or VisitScotland is harder than, for example, a decision to reassess free concessionary travel?

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

14 Dec 2010

Scotland’s Spending Plans and Draft Budget 2011-12

In your introduction to the budget document, you say:“This Government has never shirked the difficult decisions that are required in order to live within reduced means.”That is quite reassuring. In chapter 1, you go on to say:“We must therefore make cuts to projects and servic...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

14 Dec 2010

Scotland’s Spending Plans and Draft Budget 2011-12

You can see the concern that someone who is currently employed in the public sector may have. If, as a result of your aim to achieve 3 per cent efficiency savings, they lose their job, they may say to you—with some justification—that that was not an efficiency saving but a cut.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

14 Dec 2010

Scotland’s Spending Plans and Draft Budget 2011-12

That is what interests me. Some of the figures on which you have relied contain savings that have been made in local government, for example, which allegedly exceeded the targets that it was set. However, it managed to do that at a time when its workforce increased, which is q...

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

14 Dec 2010

Scotland’s Spending Plans and Draft Budget 2011-12

You think that you will be able to do that without losing a single job.

Tom McCabe Lab Committee

14 Dec 2010

Scotland’s Spending Plans and Draft Budget 2011-12

You will not be surprised to hear that that did not particularly reassure me. I did not ask what other Governments around the world will have to do in the future; I asked what they had managed to do in the past. Do you have evidence from anywhere else that anyone has managed t...