Chamber
Plenary, 10 Dec 2009
10 Dec 2009 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Concessionary Travel Scheme
I think that there will be an awful lot of support for what Charlie Gordon is trying to achieve through his bill. There is support not just in the Scottish Parliament but among passenger groups and the Scottish Trades Union Council. The union Unite, whose representatives are in the gallery this morning, supports the proposal, because it knows that it will make a difference to people who work in the industry. Although initiatives at local government level are welcome, we need to have a national debate about the services that we have to provide in Scotland and about how public money is spent most effectively in order to make a difference for the people who use those services.
Given the past enthusiasm, particularly among members of the Government, for bus regulation, I am sure that Charlie Gordon can look forward to receiving support for his bill from a number of SNP members.
Last week, I attended a meeting of the Kirkcaldy and district trades council—it was the first time in a few years that I had been to a trades council meeting—at which I was reminded of the key issues that we face in the current economic climate. The meeting was well attended and the debate was wide ranging. What struck me was that people understand the reality: it is about making the right choices.
Alex Johnstone said that we have to say where we would find the money. The Conservatives went into budget negotiations in the past two years with the Scottish Government. I am not sure to what extent Mr Johnstone is privy to this, but the Conservatives made no alternative recommendations about where the money would come from for the acceleration of the small business bonus scheme and the town centre regeneration fund in this year's budget. That was done through discussion and negotiation with the Scottish Government at the time. That is an important point to put on the record.
I am proud of the role that Fife played in developing the first concessionary travel scheme in the UK. The then convener of Fife Regional Council, Bert Gough, a Labour councillor who sadly died in 1998, must take all the credit for driving that policy through at the time. He pioneered the policy in very difficult times throughout Fife. The kingdom was witnessing the decline of the long-standing mining industry and there were a considerable number of job losses in the defence sector, but he recognised the importance of ensuring that many of our people, particularly our older people, had the opportunity to move around Fife and the contribution that that made to their health and wellbeing.
In recent years, Fife has expanded its concessionary travel scheme to cover rail travel, too. The current scheme entitles card holders to discounted journeys for a fare of 50p. Around 90,000 Fifers are entitled to that rail concession scheme, under which it is estimated that just under 0.5 million journeys will have been undertaken in the past year.
However, there is a worrying development regarding the concessionary rail travel scheme. According to the council, the current cost of the scheme is around £700,000. That is easy to quantify when we are looking at budget constraints, but it is much more difficult to measure the positive impact that the scheme has had on the health and wellbeing of the thousands of people who use it.
Fifers are realistic. I recently received an e-mail from a constituent who is concerned about the council's plans to perhaps remove the scheme. The constituent said of the scheme:
"I realise that money is tight. There are many ways of maintaining it for ALL pensioners, like increasing the fare from 50p to £1."
I think that that would still leave a worthwhile saving on the standard fare for pensioners. We need to have a wider debate on what spending money on individuals now means for their wider health and wellbeing and for future accessibility. The key issue is that a proposal has been made that is creating concern in Fife, but £1 spent on a concessionary scheme now will have a far greater impact and will save money further down the line, although that is very difficult to quantify.
The Labour group in Fife Council has made the good suggestion, which echoes the views of constituents, that we increase the fare from 50p to £1, which would be worth while. It is important to highlight that in the debate.
A petition is being taken forward by local people in Fife and by the Scottish Pensioners Forum—Margaret Murdoch, who is here this morning, is taking the petition forward. I have signed the petition and I urge other Fife members to support it, too.
If a scheme such as this is going to make a difference, we have to ensure that it is supported now in these difficult times. I look forward to working closely with Charlie Gordon as his bill progresses.
Given the past enthusiasm, particularly among members of the Government, for bus regulation, I am sure that Charlie Gordon can look forward to receiving support for his bill from a number of SNP members.
Last week, I attended a meeting of the Kirkcaldy and district trades council—it was the first time in a few years that I had been to a trades council meeting—at which I was reminded of the key issues that we face in the current economic climate. The meeting was well attended and the debate was wide ranging. What struck me was that people understand the reality: it is about making the right choices.
Alex Johnstone said that we have to say where we would find the money. The Conservatives went into budget negotiations in the past two years with the Scottish Government. I am not sure to what extent Mr Johnstone is privy to this, but the Conservatives made no alternative recommendations about where the money would come from for the acceleration of the small business bonus scheme and the town centre regeneration fund in this year's budget. That was done through discussion and negotiation with the Scottish Government at the time. That is an important point to put on the record.
I am proud of the role that Fife played in developing the first concessionary travel scheme in the UK. The then convener of Fife Regional Council, Bert Gough, a Labour councillor who sadly died in 1998, must take all the credit for driving that policy through at the time. He pioneered the policy in very difficult times throughout Fife. The kingdom was witnessing the decline of the long-standing mining industry and there were a considerable number of job losses in the defence sector, but he recognised the importance of ensuring that many of our people, particularly our older people, had the opportunity to move around Fife and the contribution that that made to their health and wellbeing.
In recent years, Fife has expanded its concessionary travel scheme to cover rail travel, too. The current scheme entitles card holders to discounted journeys for a fare of 50p. Around 90,000 Fifers are entitled to that rail concession scheme, under which it is estimated that just under 0.5 million journeys will have been undertaken in the past year.
However, there is a worrying development regarding the concessionary rail travel scheme. According to the council, the current cost of the scheme is around £700,000. That is easy to quantify when we are looking at budget constraints, but it is much more difficult to measure the positive impact that the scheme has had on the health and wellbeing of the thousands of people who use it.
Fifers are realistic. I recently received an e-mail from a constituent who is concerned about the council's plans to perhaps remove the scheme. The constituent said of the scheme:
"I realise that money is tight. There are many ways of maintaining it for ALL pensioners, like increasing the fare from 50p to £1."
I think that that would still leave a worthwhile saving on the standard fare for pensioners. We need to have a wider debate on what spending money on individuals now means for their wider health and wellbeing and for future accessibility. The key issue is that a proposal has been made that is creating concern in Fife, but £1 spent on a concessionary scheme now will have a far greater impact and will save money further down the line, although that is very difficult to quantify.
The Labour group in Fife Council has made the good suggestion, which echoes the views of constituents, that we increase the fare from 50p to £1, which would be worth while. It is important to highlight that in the debate.
A petition is being taken forward by local people in Fife and by the Scottish Pensioners Forum—Margaret Murdoch, who is here this morning, is taking the petition forward. I have signed the petition and I urge other Fife members to support it, too.
If a scheme such as this is going to make a difference, we have to ensure that it is supported now in these difficult times. I look forward to working closely with Charlie Gordon as his bill progresses.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business is a debate on motion S3M-5378, in the name of Charlie Gordon, on concessionary travel.
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome this opportunity to open the first parliamentary debate for five years devoted to concessionary travel.On 1 April 2006, the national concessionary ...
The Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change (Stewart Stevenson):
SNP
For the avoidance of doubt, I report to Parliament my interest in the scheme by displaying my old person's bus pass, which I have used on ministerial busines...
Charlie Gordon:
Lab
Is the minister aware that I took a leaf out of the book of his colleague, Angela Constance?
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
Indeed, but I think that Leonard Cheshire probably also had something to do with the drafting of the motion.This is a serious matter, and it is good that we ...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
Will the minister reflect on yesterday's debate, during which members of his party were trumpeting on about other parties and the Parliament doing things bet...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
The member makes a perfectly reasonable point, but I point out that I congratulated her party and, indeed, the Liberal Democrats when they introduced the sch...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD):
LD
We all agree that the national concessionary travel scheme, which was introduced by the previous Executive, has been a resounding success. We also agree that...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
When engaged in the political process, I meet a lot of people who believe that politicians just argue with one another all the time and that we do it for the...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I hope that the member will agree that the key point here is that we should look to the Government to say precisely where the money will come from. It is the...
Alex Johnstone:
Con
The member has missed the point entirely.I spent part of yesterday afternoon listening to Alistair Darling's pre-budget statement. I heard a chancellor talki...
Alison McInnes:
LD
Does Alex Johnstone accept that I said in my speech that the Government ought to look at this in an holistic way, for example by looking at the health benefi...
Alex Johnstone:
Con
Indeed, I fully accept that. However, since the election in 2007, I have listened to many Liberal Democrat spokesmen in the Parliament make what appear to be...
Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way?
Alex Johnstone:
Con
I am just about to finish.We have always said that money does not grow on trees, and that has never been more true than today. We must prioritise. If we are ...
John Park (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this morning's debate and support fully the sentiment and details of the motion.Like many MSPs, I have received a signi...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
Does John Park welcome, as I do, the work that Glasgow City Council is undertaking to develop a statuatory bus partnership, that will deliver almost all the ...
John Park:
Lab
I think that there will be an awful lot of support for what Charlie Gordon is trying to achieve through his bill. There is support not just in the Scottish P...
Shirley-Anne Somerville (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I understand that Ian McKee and Chris Harvie, who will be speaking later, and the minister have already collected their bus passes and that Charlie Gordon mi...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Will the member give way?
Shirley-Anne Somerville:
SNP
For more than a year after the scheme was established, not a word came from the parties on the unfairness of the criteria that they introduced, unless I miss...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
I fully appreciate and understand that we got it wrong in the previous parliamentary session. No Labour member will say anything different from that. However...
Shirley-Anne Somerville:
SNP
I have heard from no Labour members how they would pay for their motion—I will come on to that in due course.Within weeks of becoming the Opposition, members...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
So did Angela Constance.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
Ms Gillon.
Shirley-Anne Somerville:
SNP
General demands to spend money are one thing; detailed and costed proposals are another. Opposition members must face up to the reality.
Alison McInnes:
LD
Ms Somerville accuses us of opportunism, but that is not the case. The Liberal Democrats raised the issue as we headed into a review, which Tavish Scott buil...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
Please face your microphone—we cannot hear you.
Alison McInnes:
LD
I beg your pardon, Presiding Officer.When that review began, we rightly suggested amendments to the scheme.
Shirley-Anne Somerville:
SNP
Many people have proposed amendments to the scheme, but Opposition members have not addressed how to pay for those amendments. I will return to that.When we ...