Chamber
Plenary, 26 Feb 2009
26 Feb 2009 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Marine Bill Consultation
No. I have taken a couple of responses from the cabinet secretary already.
Marine Scotland's status is important. We are being denied the opportunity to debate it in the proper way—we should be able to do that at stage 1, following the introduction of the marine (Scotland) bill. I will issue a series of questions to the cabinet secretary after this debate raising the objections of a whole range of organisations on the status of marine Scotland that I do not believe were addressed in the cabinet secretary's speech.
We need to start from a set of principles that involve the Scottish Government laying down the policy and marine Scotland implementing it and delivering on it. That framework needs to be clearly set out by the Scottish Government, which is accountable to us and to the Scottish people. There are issues around how marine Scotland will relate to the new marine management organisation that the UK Government is setting up. That was not addressed in the cabinet secretary's speech. Issues clearly need to be addressed. There needs to be a transparent and fair framework. That is why we have a problem with the proposals.
The Scottish Government is to centralise decision making and implementation in-house. What opportunity will local communities have to get involved in the process of marine planning? How will interested parties such as local communities, fishing interests, economic interests such as renewables companies, environmental organisations and animal welfare groups be able to take part in the planning and decision-making process?
There are understandable concerns about how marine Scotland will work with the Crown Estate, which has hugely ambitious plans for marine and coastal renewable energy across Scotland. How will the licensing regime actually work? That is a crucial issue for the many organisations that are involved in marine activities.
The cabinet secretary argues that we need to get on and establish marine Scotland to enable decisions to be made, but a whole raft of questions remain unanswered. It was not possible, in his brief speech, for the cabinet secretary to go through all the issues in the way that might be possible in committee.
What sort of appeals process will the Scottish Government develop? It cannot be judge and jury on all the issues. I would like to have heard the cabinet secretary's thinking on appeals, especially as they are a core concern of many organisations.
It is not fair for the cabinet secretary to say that all the issues have been resolved, because clearly they have not. We need to consider how marine Scotland will be organised and exactly how all the detailed questions that many stakeholders have put to the cabinet secretary will be addressed.
This debate is about teasing out those issues. We do not see why the cabinet secretary has to be precious about it and say that everybody agrees with everything. It would be unbelievable if everybody agreed with everything that the cabinet secretary is proposing at this stage. He is suggesting that when we come to the debate in committee, no one will have any concerns about anything in the bill. That is not sustainable—detailed questions need to be examined.
We will not have moved far today unless we get to the nub of some of the issues—we do not need to shy away from them. We have not taken a final view on all the issues—that is the point of not only today's debate but the detailed discussions that we will have in committee. We look forward to that debate and to hearing what other parties have to say on these crucial issues.
I move amendment S3M-3528.3, to leave out from "to drive" to end and insert:
"; acknowledges the positive response to the consultation, Sustainable Seas for All, but expresses its disappointment that the Scottish Government acted in advance of the Marine Bill to establish Marine Scotland; notes the concerns that have been expressed regarding its lack of independence and the lack of clarity regarding its status among stakeholders and other agencies; notes the importance of healthy marine ecosystems and the need for a coherent sustainable development marine policy framework to support economic development, nature conservation and decision making; further notes the recent agreement with the UK Government to secure executive responsibility for marine nature conservation and planning in the offshore zone, and calls on the Scottish Government to work with other legislatures to ensure a joined-up approach to marine management of our shared seas."
Marine Scotland's status is important. We are being denied the opportunity to debate it in the proper way—we should be able to do that at stage 1, following the introduction of the marine (Scotland) bill. I will issue a series of questions to the cabinet secretary after this debate raising the objections of a whole range of organisations on the status of marine Scotland that I do not believe were addressed in the cabinet secretary's speech.
We need to start from a set of principles that involve the Scottish Government laying down the policy and marine Scotland implementing it and delivering on it. That framework needs to be clearly set out by the Scottish Government, which is accountable to us and to the Scottish people. There are issues around how marine Scotland will relate to the new marine management organisation that the UK Government is setting up. That was not addressed in the cabinet secretary's speech. Issues clearly need to be addressed. There needs to be a transparent and fair framework. That is why we have a problem with the proposals.
The Scottish Government is to centralise decision making and implementation in-house. What opportunity will local communities have to get involved in the process of marine planning? How will interested parties such as local communities, fishing interests, economic interests such as renewables companies, environmental organisations and animal welfare groups be able to take part in the planning and decision-making process?
There are understandable concerns about how marine Scotland will work with the Crown Estate, which has hugely ambitious plans for marine and coastal renewable energy across Scotland. How will the licensing regime actually work? That is a crucial issue for the many organisations that are involved in marine activities.
The cabinet secretary argues that we need to get on and establish marine Scotland to enable decisions to be made, but a whole raft of questions remain unanswered. It was not possible, in his brief speech, for the cabinet secretary to go through all the issues in the way that might be possible in committee.
What sort of appeals process will the Scottish Government develop? It cannot be judge and jury on all the issues. I would like to have heard the cabinet secretary's thinking on appeals, especially as they are a core concern of many organisations.
It is not fair for the cabinet secretary to say that all the issues have been resolved, because clearly they have not. We need to consider how marine Scotland will be organised and exactly how all the detailed questions that many stakeholders have put to the cabinet secretary will be addressed.
This debate is about teasing out those issues. We do not see why the cabinet secretary has to be precious about it and say that everybody agrees with everything. It would be unbelievable if everybody agreed with everything that the cabinet secretary is proposing at this stage. He is suggesting that when we come to the debate in committee, no one will have any concerns about anything in the bill. That is not sustainable—detailed questions need to be examined.
We will not have moved far today unless we get to the nub of some of the issues—we do not need to shy away from them. We have not taken a final view on all the issues—that is the point of not only today's debate but the detailed discussions that we will have in committee. We look forward to that debate and to hearing what other parties have to say on these crucial issues.
I move amendment S3M-3528.3, to leave out from "to drive" to end and insert:
"; acknowledges the positive response to the consultation, Sustainable Seas for All, but expresses its disappointment that the Scottish Government acted in advance of the Marine Bill to establish Marine Scotland; notes the concerns that have been expressed regarding its lack of independence and the lack of clarity regarding its status among stakeholders and other agencies; notes the importance of healthy marine ecosystems and the need for a coherent sustainable development marine policy framework to support economic development, nature conservation and decision making; further notes the recent agreement with the UK Government to secure executive responsibility for marine nature conservation and planning in the offshore zone, and calls on the Scottish Government to work with other legislatures to ensure a joined-up approach to marine management of our shared seas."
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-3528, in the name of Richard Lochhead, on the marine bill consultation.
The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead):
SNP
Scotland has a world-class marine environment and an enviable maritime heritage. We have 10 per cent of Europe's coastline, 20 per cent of Europe's seas and ...
Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):
Lab
Nowadays, we regularly have debates in the chamber in advance of a stage 1 debate. In some ways, that is good, because it lets us focus on issues for proper ...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
I was intrigued by the Scottish Fishermen's Federation's submission. I assure the member that I spoke to the organisation yesterday to clarify its position. ...
Sarah Boyack:
Lab
I have read the Scottish Fishermen's Federation's submission and the key points in it, and it does not seem to me that the cabinet secretary has dealt in det...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
I simply ask the member to note the quote from RSPB Scotland that I read out in my opening speech. It is a major player in Scottish Environment LINK.
Sarah Boyack:
Lab
I was just coming to RSPB Scotland. The quote that I am going to use was also given in response to the consultation. Again, RSPB Scotland's points about the ...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Sarah Boyack:
Lab
No. I have taken a couple of responses from the cabinet secretary already.Marine Scotland's status is important. We are being denied the opportunity to debat...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con):
Con
I welcome the debate on the Scottish marine bill, which comes at an appropriate time, following the introduction of the UK Marine and Coastal Access Bill at ...
Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab):
Lab
I clarify that we have no antipathy towards marine Scotland. Our query is whether it should be an arm of Government or should be independent of Government. T...
John Scott:
Con
Forgive me for misunderstanding Labour's amendment, but it seems to me that it expresses antipathy towards marine Scotland and making an early start on it. T...
Liam McArthur (Orkney) (LD):
LD
Like Sarah Boyack, I welcome Roseanna Cunningham to her new role, but I am disappointed that the Government's gain is the Rural Affairs and Environment Commi...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
I welcome that final sentence of the member's comments, but let me pick up on what he said about the timescale for the bill. Does he not recall that his part...
Liam McArthur:
LD
The previous Administration had been in place for eight years when Mr Lochhead made his statement in June 2007—I am confused about the commitment that he gav...
Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):
Green
My contribution will be short, but very sweet. My amendment is motivated by the growing perception that the present world crisis offers an opportunity for us...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
The debate is fully subscribed so I will stop members as soon as their time limit is reached.
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP):
SNP
Our coasts and seas provide food from fisheries, energy and mineral resources, routes and harbours for shipping, tourism and recreation opportunities and sit...
Peter Peacock (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
I have spoken many times about the importance of the seas to our basic existence as human beings. Indeed, the seas provide the basis for life on our planet a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I am sorry, but the member's time is up.
John Farquhar Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD):
LD
I am pleased to be involved in this debate on the proposed marine bill. If the bill is eventually passed, it will impact on the lives and wellbeing of many o...
Alasdair Allan (Western Isles) (SNP):
SNP
It will come as little surprise to hear the member for the Western Isles speak in favour of a marine bill. The sea has represented life and, often, death for...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
I join other members in wishing Roseanna Cunningham well in her new post. I agree with other speakers about the need for a robust and overarching marine poli...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Rhoda Grant:
Lab
Do I have time, Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I suspect not.
Rhoda Grant:
Lab
Okay. I am sorry, Mr Lochhead.In the proposed bill, political ideology again comes ahead of the needs of the communities that we serve. The minister must cha...
Robin Harper:
Green
The debate has been interesting and I welcome much of what has been said. There is a growing consensus around the fact that, through a combination of no-take...
Rhoda Grant:
Lab
Robin Harper misses my point. The problem is that scientists are different from fishery protection. The scientists should have full and free access to fishin...
Robin Harper:
Green
I thank Rhoda Grant for that clarification. We certainly must have scientists working with the fishermen. I was glad to hear references to the science from t...