Chamber
Plenary, 04 Dec 2008
04 Dec 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Forced Marriages
I absolutely accept that forced marriage is an issue that is not simply for women—although, because of defined roles in communities, it affects more women than men. However, I do not in any way dismiss the suffering of some young men in such circumstances.
No matter how talented individual women are, they can be scared in their own homes, and threatened and intimidated outside, too.
Experience tells us that—with forced marriage as with other issues—caring is not enough. Feeling for the survivors will not address the problems. We need to understand the causes; resource the people who know how to keep women safe; and tackle the causes through education, provision and legislative action.
There is an added dimension to the debate on forced marriage—the fear of causing some kind of cultural offence. However, as one young Asian Scot said to me, any right-thinking person must believe that it is absolutely unacceptable to force someone into marriage. [Interruption.] Even if it happens to only one person, that is one too many.
We welcome the consultation, because it is critical to get it right—to act to protect and support women, but without the unintended consequence of forced marriage being driven underground. However, we hope that whatever action is taken will be kept under close examination, to ensure that it is having the desired effect. We must not close the door on any options, and we must ensure that protection is afforded to people facing the problem across the whole United Kingdom.
It is essential to have a proper understanding of the pressures on young people who may be forced into marriage—to know how difficult it is to resist forced marriage and how isolated and vulnerable a person can feel. There is an irony in the fact that young people are sometimes forced into marriage precisely because they are challenging the roles that are expected of them. In any provision that we make, we must understand the need to protect the individual and give them both the confidence that they will continue to be protected and the knowledge that, if they have the courage to resist, we will support them in doing that. We must be able to offer safety, advice, the time that is needed and support in the future.
Young people in such situations need trusted intermediaries—people who understand the families' cultural and community sensitivities and who are able to rebut and resist some of the arguments that are put to the young people. I ask the minister to reflect on how we can consult the most powerful voices—the voices of those who can talk to their own experience, which are often silenced because they do not have the confidence to come forward. He may wish to think further about how private consultation can be undertaken with some of those who have survived and are living with their experiences.
There is also the question of education in communities that still believe that forced marriage is reasonable. It is not an issue of religious belief; it is something that can be challenged inside communities. People can be supported to do that important work.
There is an issue with resources. Scottish Women's Aid's analysis of single outcome agreements shows that only seven local authorities make any mention of domestic abuse or violence against women as a local outcome. What reassurance can the minister give that he will act to prevent those issues from being de-prioritised at a local level? I am not sure whether he is consulting COSLA on that analysis, and I do not think that he is consulting community planning partnerships. That might be a useful starting point for some of the discussions around the resource implications and the education and support side as well as around the broader legal matters.
When will the advice on equality impact assessments and equality responsibilities in relation to single outcome agreements be issued? We were promised that advice, but it has not yet appeared. What has been the role of the national group on violence against women in shaping the consultation? The group is a powerful forum for such discussions, but I do not know whether it has discussed the issue, and if so when, or whether it plans to discuss it. That information would be useful to us in forming our view of the consultation. [Interruption.] What is the group's role in assessing, monitoring and considering the implications of single outcome agreements?
I welcome the debate and recognise the progress that has been made. I welcome the consultation although, as ever, I regret that it is necessary. Finally, I congratulate all those in the Parliament and far beyond who ensure that the issues facing survivors of domestic abuse and violence against women and those who are coping with forced marriages are kept in the public eye so that action can be taken. I urge the minister to sustain the focus on all fronts.
No matter how talented individual women are, they can be scared in their own homes, and threatened and intimidated outside, too.
Experience tells us that—with forced marriage as with other issues—caring is not enough. Feeling for the survivors will not address the problems. We need to understand the causes; resource the people who know how to keep women safe; and tackle the causes through education, provision and legislative action.
There is an added dimension to the debate on forced marriage—the fear of causing some kind of cultural offence. However, as one young Asian Scot said to me, any right-thinking person must believe that it is absolutely unacceptable to force someone into marriage. [Interruption.] Even if it happens to only one person, that is one too many.
We welcome the consultation, because it is critical to get it right—to act to protect and support women, but without the unintended consequence of forced marriage being driven underground. However, we hope that whatever action is taken will be kept under close examination, to ensure that it is having the desired effect. We must not close the door on any options, and we must ensure that protection is afforded to people facing the problem across the whole United Kingdom.
It is essential to have a proper understanding of the pressures on young people who may be forced into marriage—to know how difficult it is to resist forced marriage and how isolated and vulnerable a person can feel. There is an irony in the fact that young people are sometimes forced into marriage precisely because they are challenging the roles that are expected of them. In any provision that we make, we must understand the need to protect the individual and give them both the confidence that they will continue to be protected and the knowledge that, if they have the courage to resist, we will support them in doing that. We must be able to offer safety, advice, the time that is needed and support in the future.
Young people in such situations need trusted intermediaries—people who understand the families' cultural and community sensitivities and who are able to rebut and resist some of the arguments that are put to the young people. I ask the minister to reflect on how we can consult the most powerful voices—the voices of those who can talk to their own experience, which are often silenced because they do not have the confidence to come forward. He may wish to think further about how private consultation can be undertaken with some of those who have survived and are living with their experiences.
There is also the question of education in communities that still believe that forced marriage is reasonable. It is not an issue of religious belief; it is something that can be challenged inside communities. People can be supported to do that important work.
There is an issue with resources. Scottish Women's Aid's analysis of single outcome agreements shows that only seven local authorities make any mention of domestic abuse or violence against women as a local outcome. What reassurance can the minister give that he will act to prevent those issues from being de-prioritised at a local level? I am not sure whether he is consulting COSLA on that analysis, and I do not think that he is consulting community planning partnerships. That might be a useful starting point for some of the discussions around the resource implications and the education and support side as well as around the broader legal matters.
When will the advice on equality impact assessments and equality responsibilities in relation to single outcome agreements be issued? We were promised that advice, but it has not yet appeared. What has been the role of the national group on violence against women in shaping the consultation? The group is a powerful forum for such discussions, but I do not know whether it has discussed the issue, and if so when, or whether it plans to discuss it. That information would be useful to us in forming our view of the consultation. [Interruption.] What is the group's role in assessing, monitoring and considering the implications of single outcome agreements?
I welcome the debate and recognise the progress that has been made. I welcome the consultation although, as ever, I regret that it is necessary. Finally, I congratulate all those in the Parliament and far beyond who ensure that the issues facing survivors of domestic abuse and violence against women and those who are coping with forced marriages are kept in the public eye so that action can be taken. I urge the minister to sustain the focus on all fronts.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-3011, in the name of Stewart Maxwell, on forced marriages.
The Minister for Communities and Sport (Stewart Maxwell):
SNP
In debating the issues that affect our country, it is not often that we approach a subject with consensus in the chamber. I thank all the parties and their s...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab):
Lab
Presiding Officer, please use your power to take some time away from my summing-up speech if that will help you to juggle times later on and means that you w...
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
Does the member acknowledge that 38 per cent of the victims in forced marriages are male?
Johann Lamont:
Lab
I absolutely accept that forced marriage is an issue that is not simply for women—although, because of defined roles in communities, it affects more women th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
I remind members to ensure that their mobile phones and BlackBerrys are switched off.
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I apologise to Johann Lamont. The figure of 38 per cent that I cited for male victims was incorrect—the true figure is 15 per cent, which is still highly sig...
Hugh O'Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate and to put forward the Liberal Democrats' thoughts on forced marriage. We welcome the opportunity th...
Stewart Maxwell:
SNP
Does Hugh O'Donnell remember that?
Hugh O'Donnell:
LD
No, I do not.Huge cultural pressure can be placed on young people. Prior to being elected to the Parliament, I had first-hand experience of that, as I have h...
Bashir Ahmad (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome today's debate on an extremely serious and important issue. The term "forced marriages" is used a lot by the media, politicians and community organ...
Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab):
Lab
As we know, there is no offence of forced marriage in Scotland. Civil and criminal law in Scotland offers some protection to victims who are forced to marry ...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
Although forced marriage is thankfully very rare in Britain and in Scotland, it can have a devastating effect on its victims. I therefore welcome the debate,...
Stewart Maxwell:
SNP
I acknowledge what the member says; he is quite correct in what he says about the law as it stands. However, does he accept that what he has just explained c...
John Lamont:
Con
I agree with the minister entirely. I have set out what Scots law currently allows for. We are trying to prevent forced marriages, rather than deal with them...
Hugh O’Donnell:
LD
Will the member confirm that David Cameron initially proposed criminalising—in a non-civil way—forced marriage when the UK bill was introduced in 2006?
John Lamont:
Con
I am not aware of that proposal. My understanding is that we as a party supported the bill when it went through the Westminster Parliament. The Scottish Cons...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
At this stage in the debate, it is inevitable that much has already been said. I might occasionally tread where others have been and repeat what they have sa...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
As far as I understand it, one of the big differences is that, in other parts of the United Kingdom, a third party can apply for an order. That is particular...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
That is a very fair point, which I hope will be developed by the minister. Johann Lamont might have caught me on that point, but that is fine—it is what a de...
Marlyn Glen (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
We have heard some details about what forced marriages are, and we recognise the differences between a forced, or coerced, marriage and an arranged marriage ...
Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab):
Lab
I appreciate the opportunity to speak.On 25 November, new laws came into force in the rest of the UK to prevent forced marriages and to protect those who hav...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
This has been an important debate about a sensitive issue. Bashir Ahmad was right to say that one forced marriage is one too many.I thank all those who have ...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
The Conservative group will support the Government motion at decision time.There is contradictory evidence, as we have heard in the debate, about the number ...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
It is a reflection on how far we have come that there is consensus that this matter is serious and appropriate for public debate and political action. We hav...
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing):
SNP
I welcome this afternoon's wide-ranging debate, and the cross-party support and commitment to eradicating forced marriage and other forms of honour-based vio...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
Does the minister agree that there is a difference between giving people certainty that something will happen, and expecting people to make it happen? There ...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
There is a difference between the two prospects, but I certainly do not accept that the issue has been in any way deprioritised, nor do I accept that any cou...