Chamber
Plenary, 26 Jun 2008
26 Jun 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Flooding and Flood Management
I am not a Rural Affairs and Environment Committee member, or even a substitute member, so I do not have the depth of knowledge that committee members have. However, I want to speak because flooding is a huge issue in the Highlands and Islands, as David Stewart just said.
The Scottish Government's flood risk maps show that the local authority with the largest area that is covered by fluvial flood zones is Highland Council. The same maps highlight the fact that Western Isles Council has the largest area that is covered by one-in-200-year coastal flood zones.
Of course, horrific floods occurred in Moray in 1997 and 2002. Last night, I attended Jim Hume's textiles exhibition in the garden lobby, where I spoke to Johnstons of Elgin. It is well known that that company lost £20 million in the earlier floods. Its quotations for insurance policies now run into millions. That is just one business, which has also spent huge amounts of money on preventive measures, as the cabinet secretary—who is the local MSP—knows.
In Elgin alone, 650 houses and 180 commercial properties were damaged in the 2002 floods. The combined losses from 1997 and 2002 are estimated to exceed £100 million. The committee visited Elgin to take evidence from a Moray Council official and residents whose homes and businesses were severely affected by flood waters.
Councils such as Moray have overwhelming public support for introducing flood prevention schemes and Moray Council has promoted four flood prevention orders—in Lhanbryde, Rothes, Forres and Elgin—for schemes whose value is estimated to exceed £150 million. The schemes attracted only 31 objections, but legislation says that if any flood prevention order receives even one objection—no matter how minor—that will lead to a public inquiry. As we all know, public inquiries can be expensive for the local authority and can significantly delay a scheme's implementation. I hope and trust that the minister will give guidance on whether that requirement will change and whether objectors will be limited to people such as those who live in or have businesses in the area and whom flooding would affect.
I will focus on the recommendations on pluvial flooding. Recommendation 9 is
"that the … Government place significantly greater emphasis on pluvial flood management in setting future objectives for Scottish Water."
That point arose in Moray only two weeks ago, when it was reported that the £83 million Elgin scheme will face further delays and extra costs, because Scottish Water will not do work that the local council's flood alleviation team understood that it would do to improve the drainage system and complement measures in the scheme. Scottish Water insists that that work is outwith its remit. I listened carefully to the cabinet secretary and I understand from what he said that the proposed bill will address the lack of co-ordination. I trust that that will bring clarity to the issue that I raise and that it will be addressed further down the line.
Recommendations 11 and 12, which are on funding, are also significant to Moray. Flood prevention is a top priority of Moray Council, which has allocated £40 million over the next three years to advance flood prevention schemes. However, the current estimate is that the council will face a shortfall of £23 million over those three years. More worrying is the fact that, in the longer term, the shortfall could exceed £80 million. Therefore, clarity on needs-based funding or clear criteria for prioritising funding for flood schemes, which the committee's report recommends, would be welcome.
My final point is on an important issue of guidance that was given to councillors about planning applications. At a recent meeting of Moray Council's planning and regulatory committee, members were faced with contradictory advice from SEPA and the council's flood experts on two applications. Guidance was sought from the director, who suggested that the better, more up-to-date, locally based advice was from the council's own team. I understand that the SEPA advice largely rests on desk-based maps and that, worryingly, it takes no account of flood alleviation schemes that are in place or planned.
I ask the minister whether authorities, such as Moray Council, that have expert local flood teams providing advice, should still have to contend with SEPA as a statutory consultee. I ask that because if the council ignores its own flood experts, and SEPA disagrees, the application must go back to the Scottish Government, which causes more delay and further costs. I know that the cabinet secretary will understand that delay and higher costs are not what we are looking for in Moray.
The Scottish Government's flood risk maps show that the local authority with the largest area that is covered by fluvial flood zones is Highland Council. The same maps highlight the fact that Western Isles Council has the largest area that is covered by one-in-200-year coastal flood zones.
Of course, horrific floods occurred in Moray in 1997 and 2002. Last night, I attended Jim Hume's textiles exhibition in the garden lobby, where I spoke to Johnstons of Elgin. It is well known that that company lost £20 million in the earlier floods. Its quotations for insurance policies now run into millions. That is just one business, which has also spent huge amounts of money on preventive measures, as the cabinet secretary—who is the local MSP—knows.
In Elgin alone, 650 houses and 180 commercial properties were damaged in the 2002 floods. The combined losses from 1997 and 2002 are estimated to exceed £100 million. The committee visited Elgin to take evidence from a Moray Council official and residents whose homes and businesses were severely affected by flood waters.
Councils such as Moray have overwhelming public support for introducing flood prevention schemes and Moray Council has promoted four flood prevention orders—in Lhanbryde, Rothes, Forres and Elgin—for schemes whose value is estimated to exceed £150 million. The schemes attracted only 31 objections, but legislation says that if any flood prevention order receives even one objection—no matter how minor—that will lead to a public inquiry. As we all know, public inquiries can be expensive for the local authority and can significantly delay a scheme's implementation. I hope and trust that the minister will give guidance on whether that requirement will change and whether objectors will be limited to people such as those who live in or have businesses in the area and whom flooding would affect.
I will focus on the recommendations on pluvial flooding. Recommendation 9 is
"that the … Government place significantly greater emphasis on pluvial flood management in setting future objectives for Scottish Water."
That point arose in Moray only two weeks ago, when it was reported that the £83 million Elgin scheme will face further delays and extra costs, because Scottish Water will not do work that the local council's flood alleviation team understood that it would do to improve the drainage system and complement measures in the scheme. Scottish Water insists that that work is outwith its remit. I listened carefully to the cabinet secretary and I understand from what he said that the proposed bill will address the lack of co-ordination. I trust that that will bring clarity to the issue that I raise and that it will be addressed further down the line.
Recommendations 11 and 12, which are on funding, are also significant to Moray. Flood prevention is a top priority of Moray Council, which has allocated £40 million over the next three years to advance flood prevention schemes. However, the current estimate is that the council will face a shortfall of £23 million over those three years. More worrying is the fact that, in the longer term, the shortfall could exceed £80 million. Therefore, clarity on needs-based funding or clear criteria for prioritising funding for flood schemes, which the committee's report recommends, would be welcome.
My final point is on an important issue of guidance that was given to councillors about planning applications. At a recent meeting of Moray Council's planning and regulatory committee, members were faced with contradictory advice from SEPA and the council's flood experts on two applications. Guidance was sought from the director, who suggested that the better, more up-to-date, locally based advice was from the council's own team. I understand that the SEPA advice largely rests on desk-based maps and that, worryingly, it takes no account of flood alleviation schemes that are in place or planned.
I ask the minister whether authorities, such as Moray Council, that have expert local flood teams providing advice, should still have to contend with SEPA as a statutory consultee. I ask that because if the council ignores its own flood experts, and SEPA disagrees, the application must go back to the Scottish Government, which causes more delay and further costs. I know that the cabinet secretary will understand that delay and higher costs are not what we are looking for in Moray.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-2208, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on the Rural Affairs and Environment Committee's report on floo...
Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP):
SNP
We all remember the images from England last year when very serious flooding took place in the middle of the summer. The devastation and distress were only t...
That the Parliament notes the conclusions and recommendations contained in the Rural Affairs and Environment Committee’s 2nd Report, 2008 (Session 3):
Flooding and Flood Management (SP Paper 96).
The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead):
SNP
I warmly commend the committee for its thorough investigation and report, which are certainly helping to ensure that flooding remains firmly on the Parliamen...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I ask members who are speaking and those who are sitting close to them to ensure that their telephones and BlackBerrys are turned off. Quite a lot of interfe...
Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):
Lab
We very much welcome the Rural Affairs and Environment Committee's report, which is timely given that the Pitt report, which contains recommendations arising...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
The Rural Affairs and Environment Committee is to be congratulated on a thorough and timely piece of work, which coincides with the Government's consultation...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
One of the most important points in our report is the recommendation that SEPA should take the lead at a national level in overseeing the flood risk plans th...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
Does Mr Rumbles not accept that there is more than one way to skin a cat? I was able to ask all the questions that I required to ask—and the committee makes ...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
Yes, but is it not unfortunate that we had to go round in circles and were prevented from using the word "Aviemore"? Let us be clear: the First Minister made...
Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. The issue of flooding is a very serious subject for debate. If Mr Rumbles is addressing not the issue of flooding but...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
I am listening very carefully—
Mike Rumbles:
LD
I—
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
I am speaking, Mr Rumbles. I am listening carefully to what you have to say. I ask you to remember what the subject is and to be very careful from now on.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
The subject is clear. It is about managing flooding and preventing the building of houses on the flood plain. This is a prime example of that.The First Minis...
Roseanna Cunningham:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mike Rumbles:
LD
No. Another SEPA e-mail referred to"Interference in due process … if signed off, it will no doubt affect staff morale".
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
You have one minute.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
All those interventions have taken time from me, Presiding Officer, but never mind.After all that, Mike Russell, the planning minister, came before our commi...
Michael Russell:
SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am not the planning minister, so I hope that Mr Rumbles is not misleading the chamber. Perhaps that point could be ...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
The convener was so concerned about protecting the minister that prior to the meeting she informed us all that she would not even allow any mention of the Av...
Jamie Hepburn (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
By now, observant members will have noticed that motions have been laid before the Parliament that would mean changes to the membership of various committees...
Peter Peacock (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
Like other members, I think that the committee conducted a good inquiry. It is worth acknowledging the fact that, with one exception, which Mike Rumbles ment...
Bill Wilson (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Having quickly rewritten the start of my speech, I now begin by congratulating Roseanna Cunningham on her chairing of the committee. Events in the chamber ha...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):
Lab
Is it Bill Wilson's understanding that the SNP Government will not go ahead with any PFI or public-private partnership projects in the future?
Bill Wilson:
SNP
My understanding is that we are moving towards an alternative, non-profit-sharing method, which will phase out PFI. Where contracts have already been signed,...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
I echo the mostly positive comments of previous speakers. I thank the Rural Affairs and Environment Committee and its clerks for all their work in preparing ...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I am not a Rural Affairs and Environment Committee member, or even a substitute member, so I do not have the depth of knowledge that committee members have. ...
Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD):
LD
There must be something symbolic in the fact that, when Mary Scanlon and I choose to speak in a debate in which we have only a general interest, the heavens ...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
The flooding that affected the Highlands and Islands about 18 months ago and the Western Isles a year earlier sharpened much of the debate in the Parliament ...