Chamber
Plenary, 27 Mar 2008
27 Mar 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Fatal Accident Inquiries
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this afternoon's debate. Like Pauline McNeill and Michael McMahon, I will support the amendment in the name of Margaret Smith. I congratulate her on the work that she is doing in this important area.
We all feel for bereaved families and care about the distress that is caused to them, no matter the circumstances of the death. We care especially for the bereaved families of servicemen and servicewomen who have to travel to England to attend coroners' inquests. As Pauline McNeill said, Labour will work with the United Kingdom Government in striving to achieve viable alternative arrangements to minimise travel distances at times when families can cope least. I welcome the sensitive and supportive letter from Des Browne, the Secretary of State for Defence, supporting the proposed changes and working with us to achieve the end that everyone in the chamber appears to want.
We will seek to identify how better interaction can be achieved with other forms of investigation, including public inquiries and investigations carried out by bodies such as the Health and Safety Executive. Labour has always been concerned about the number of accidents in the workplace in Scotland, despite the fact that the UK's health and safety framework is one of the strictest in the world. We need only remember what happened in Patricia Ferguson's constituency.
Labour is committed to investigating further the reasons behind Scotland's accident statistics, and we will challenge any complacency in the workplace. In our manifesto, we made a commitment to secure a more co-operative approach, and we supported the development of the roles of trade union safety representatives in the workplace. I am sure that we shall continue to honour that commitment. Hopefully, we will have the opportunity to ensure that some of that transpires into reality.
We welcome the fact that the law on fatal accident inquiries is to be reviewed for the first time in 30 years. The fact that the review, which will examine ways of making these rarely held inquiries fit for purpose, is to be undertaken by one of the country's most respected legal minds, Lord Cullen, is welcome. The retired Lord Justice General, who is known for, among other things, leading investigations into the Dunblane shooting and the Piper Alpha disaster, is expected to take about a year to conduct it. I hope that the legislation will not take much longer to come into being following the review, as the matter needs to be addressed with some urgency.
I welcome the service improvements that the Solicitor General has outlined and has had completed in the Crown Office.
I note that the review that Lord Cullen will undertake will cover a variety of measures. Of particular concern is the question whether there should be inquiries into all Scots deaths abroad in cases where the body is returned to Scotland and into the deaths of all Scots military personnel, which we support through the amendment. From what I read about the review, I assumed that it would include any death abroad. I would be grateful for any clarification on that this afternoon.
Information on the findings of inquiries over the past eight years is to be found on the Scottish Government website. It makes salutary reading for all of us, and illustrates the range and breadth of issues that sheriffs have had to deal with over the past eight years and more. It is intriguing to see the sheer breadth of issues that they encounter.
As Pauline McNeill and other members have said, resources for the review have not been mentioned, but I presume that they will be given urgent priority. Resources must always match policy. If they do not, the review simply will not happen.
The public perception is that the system neither supports bereaved families nor benefits the public good. Many people feel that the findings of fatal accident inquiries are often not properly enforced, because of a lack of central monitoring, among other things.
The current system means that inquiries can go on for many years, which is distressing for families. I hope that the review will lead to a system that will allow bereaved families to feel that lessons genuinely get learned and are acted on in a transparent way. At present, all sudden, accidental, unexpected or unexplained deaths are investigated by procurators fiscal, but only a small number—about 60 a year—are scrutinised in detail by a sheriff in a fatal accident inquiry.
We know that campaigners across Scotland have been arguing for some time for changes. Enable, a charity that supports disabled people in the community and which is well known to all MSPs, has long argued that fatal accident inquiries can take too long to organise and that many of the recommendations that they generate are not binding. Norman Dunning of Enable raised concerns over fatal accident inquiries after Enable discovered that recommendations on the care of disabled people in hospital, which were made after the death of one of Enable's clients, were not followed.
As Christine Grahame and Michael McMahon have said, those who have served on the Public Petitions Committee have heard some harrowing cases, which have left a lasting impression on us. Now, many years later, we see that we are able to make a difference, and I hope that the review will make the change that the campaigners have been campaigning for.
We are here to make a difference and we hope that we will make that difference. Hearing some of the cases that have come before the Public Petitions Committee has been an important part of my education in the Scottish Parliament. I think that the case that Michael McMahon spoke about earlier was one of the most distressing cases that we heard about.
A look at the Parliament's website shows that, over the years, many MSPs from all political parties have asked parliamentary questions based on their concerns about fatal accident inquiries.
We must remember that any fatal accident inquiry has a profound impact on those who are involved in it, whether that person is an officer, a law servant, an MSP or a member of the public. For example, as a trade union official, my husband was involved in the inquiry into the Piper Alpha disaster and he cannot now speak of that disaster without a tear coming to his eye, because he is filled with the pain of other people.
The piece of work that will be done is vital. I hope that the review will be thorough and will be completed in a reasonable timescale. I know that we all care about any untimely deaths, and, above all, those of serving military personnel.
We all feel for bereaved families and care about the distress that is caused to them, no matter the circumstances of the death. We care especially for the bereaved families of servicemen and servicewomen who have to travel to England to attend coroners' inquests. As Pauline McNeill said, Labour will work with the United Kingdom Government in striving to achieve viable alternative arrangements to minimise travel distances at times when families can cope least. I welcome the sensitive and supportive letter from Des Browne, the Secretary of State for Defence, supporting the proposed changes and working with us to achieve the end that everyone in the chamber appears to want.
We will seek to identify how better interaction can be achieved with other forms of investigation, including public inquiries and investigations carried out by bodies such as the Health and Safety Executive. Labour has always been concerned about the number of accidents in the workplace in Scotland, despite the fact that the UK's health and safety framework is one of the strictest in the world. We need only remember what happened in Patricia Ferguson's constituency.
Labour is committed to investigating further the reasons behind Scotland's accident statistics, and we will challenge any complacency in the workplace. In our manifesto, we made a commitment to secure a more co-operative approach, and we supported the development of the roles of trade union safety representatives in the workplace. I am sure that we shall continue to honour that commitment. Hopefully, we will have the opportunity to ensure that some of that transpires into reality.
We welcome the fact that the law on fatal accident inquiries is to be reviewed for the first time in 30 years. The fact that the review, which will examine ways of making these rarely held inquiries fit for purpose, is to be undertaken by one of the country's most respected legal minds, Lord Cullen, is welcome. The retired Lord Justice General, who is known for, among other things, leading investigations into the Dunblane shooting and the Piper Alpha disaster, is expected to take about a year to conduct it. I hope that the legislation will not take much longer to come into being following the review, as the matter needs to be addressed with some urgency.
I welcome the service improvements that the Solicitor General has outlined and has had completed in the Crown Office.
I note that the review that Lord Cullen will undertake will cover a variety of measures. Of particular concern is the question whether there should be inquiries into all Scots deaths abroad in cases where the body is returned to Scotland and into the deaths of all Scots military personnel, which we support through the amendment. From what I read about the review, I assumed that it would include any death abroad. I would be grateful for any clarification on that this afternoon.
Information on the findings of inquiries over the past eight years is to be found on the Scottish Government website. It makes salutary reading for all of us, and illustrates the range and breadth of issues that sheriffs have had to deal with over the past eight years and more. It is intriguing to see the sheer breadth of issues that they encounter.
As Pauline McNeill and other members have said, resources for the review have not been mentioned, but I presume that they will be given urgent priority. Resources must always match policy. If they do not, the review simply will not happen.
The public perception is that the system neither supports bereaved families nor benefits the public good. Many people feel that the findings of fatal accident inquiries are often not properly enforced, because of a lack of central monitoring, among other things.
The current system means that inquiries can go on for many years, which is distressing for families. I hope that the review will lead to a system that will allow bereaved families to feel that lessons genuinely get learned and are acted on in a transparent way. At present, all sudden, accidental, unexpected or unexplained deaths are investigated by procurators fiscal, but only a small number—about 60 a year—are scrutinised in detail by a sheriff in a fatal accident inquiry.
We know that campaigners across Scotland have been arguing for some time for changes. Enable, a charity that supports disabled people in the community and which is well known to all MSPs, has long argued that fatal accident inquiries can take too long to organise and that many of the recommendations that they generate are not binding. Norman Dunning of Enable raised concerns over fatal accident inquiries after Enable discovered that recommendations on the care of disabled people in hospital, which were made after the death of one of Enable's clients, were not followed.
As Christine Grahame and Michael McMahon have said, those who have served on the Public Petitions Committee have heard some harrowing cases, which have left a lasting impression on us. Now, many years later, we see that we are able to make a difference, and I hope that the review will make the change that the campaigners have been campaigning for.
We are here to make a difference and we hope that we will make that difference. Hearing some of the cases that have come before the Public Petitions Committee has been an important part of my education in the Scottish Parliament. I think that the case that Michael McMahon spoke about earlier was one of the most distressing cases that we heard about.
A look at the Parliament's website shows that, over the years, many MSPs from all political parties have asked parliamentary questions based on their concerns about fatal accident inquiries.
We must remember that any fatal accident inquiry has a profound impact on those who are involved in it, whether that person is an officer, a law servant, an MSP or a member of the public. For example, as a trade union official, my husband was involved in the inquiry into the Piper Alpha disaster and he cannot now speak of that disaster without a tear coming to his eye, because he is filled with the pain of other people.
The piece of work that will be done is vital. I hope that the review will be thorough and will be completed in a reasonable timescale. I know that we all care about any untimely deaths, and, above all, those of serving military personnel.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on S3M-1638, in the name of Frank Mulholland, on fatal accident inquiries. Members might wish to note that a revised se...
The Solicitor General for Scotland (Frank Mulholland):
I welcome the opportunity to open today's debate. On 7 March, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice announced that he and the Lord Advocate had agreed that there...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
The Solicitor General for Scotland is opening the debate on the Government's behalf, so will he answer my question on the Government's behalf? What is the Go...
The Solicitor General for Scotland:
I thank the member for his question, which raises an important point. The matter is reserved, because defence is reserved, so it needs to be considered and w...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the debate and Lord Cullen's forthcoming review, which will be the first proper review of the legislation on fatal accident inquiries in more than ...
Keith Brown (Ochil) (SNP):
SNP
I seek clarification. Margaret Smith has mentioned Scottish soldiers a couple of times, and her amendment mentions both"personnel, normally domiciled in Scot...
Margaret Smith:
LD
Yes. I included the phrase "normally domiciled in Scotland" to clarify that.Families who have lost loved ones through service for our country deserve our sup...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I begin by welcoming the review of the legislation governing fatal accident inquiries in Scotland. I particularly welcome the choice of Lord Cullen of Whitek...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
This is a useful debate. As members of the Justice Committee will be aware, I was minded to recommend that, as a result of a petition from Norman Dunning on ...
Keith Brown (Ochil) (SNP):
SNP
The motion welcomes an independent review by a figure of the highest reputation and legal standing to resolve a set of problems that I hope we all agree exis...
Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab):
Lab
When I had the privilege of being convener of the Public Petitions Committee, two of the most harrowing petitions that I encountered, from Enable and from th...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome this extremely interesting debate. The Solicitor General and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice are aware that, along with Margaret Smith and, as it...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this afternoon's debate. Like Pauline McNeill and Michael McMahon, I will support the amendment in t...
Michael Matheson (Falkirk West) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the review and the fact that Lord Cullen has been appointed to undertake it. As many have said, he is an individual with great experience in this f...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
Will Michael Matheson comment on whether we should consider adopting in legislation the system in America, where it is illegal to overtake a school bus at an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
That is a bit far away from the subject of fatal accident inquires.
Michael Matheson:
SNP
It is, but it is an issue that a fatal accident inquiry could consider, and it may be one of its recommendations. That brings me neatly to the issue of an in...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to participate in the debate. It is an important one on an issue that affects families and communities the length and breadth of Sc...
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I will address my remarks—as usual, very late in the debate—to one particular issue that is expected to be considered during the review: the status of recomm...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
Scotland is widely perceived to be a reasonably safe place to live and it is relied on as such. Whatever activity someone takes part in, be it white-water ra...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
The debate and the review of the law on fatal accident inquiries are welcome. As others have said, Lord Cullen's wealth of experience makes him ideally equip...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
Does the member share my concern about the deterioration of evidence when there are delays?
John Lamont:
Con
Indeed. If things are not dealt with in a timely manner, there is a danger that evidence becomes less good and less reliable. I agree with Christine Grahame'...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):
Lab
Despite popular belief, we occasionally agree with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice, and the time is right for us to support him in his review of the legisl...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill):
SNP
I welcome the spirit in which the debate has taken place and the concordat that the parties reached beforehand on the amendment, which we are happy to suppor...
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
I know that we will have a debate on this matter, but will the cabinet secretary first of all accept and act on the words of the Secretary of State for Defen...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
The short answer is that we cannot act until we have the flexibility provided by changes to the Scotland Act 1998. We are a creature of that statute and are ...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
If the Parliament votes for the amendment in the name of Margaret Smith, which suggests that the holding of FAIs into the deaths of Scottish service personne...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
We have indicated our general support for the idea—that is why we support Margaret Smith's amendment. I would be delighted if we could deal with the issue ou...
Margaret Smith:
LD
Is it the cabinet secretary's understanding that the UK Government would be prepared to support the making of a section 30 order on the issue, given that bot...