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Showing 60 of 2,096,445 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,975. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 11 Jun 2026.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
17:18
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
That concludes decision time.17:31The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The final question is, that motion S7M-00346, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on committee membership, be agreed to.Motion agreed to,That the Parliament agrees the membership of committees of the Parliament as follows—Climate Action Committ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, is: For 67, Against 25, Abstentions 26.Motion, as amended, agreed to,That the Parliament welcomes that the...
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am sorry—I could not connect to the voting app. I would have abstained.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The sixth question is, that motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, is: For 36, Against 67, Abstentions 16.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and Wes...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote will be recorded.
Duncan Dunlop (South Scotland) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I apologise—my vote was not recorded. I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The fifth question is, that amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is: For 26, Against 91, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Is...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, is: For 66, Against 27, Abstentions 26.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, is: For 17, Against 92, Abstentions 9.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform)Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform)Langan, Jam...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Malcolm Offord is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Murdo Fraser will fall.The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan M...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, is: For 94, Against 15, Abstentions 9.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Okay, thank you.
Lorna Slater (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Green Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
My apologies, Presiding Officer. That was left over from when the app was not working.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
We come to the vote on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee. Members should cast their vote now.The vote is closed.We have a point of order from Lorna Slater.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.17:18Meeting suspended.17:21On resuming—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The question on the motion will be put at decision time.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I hate to disappoint Ivan McKee, but his speech was not the last speech before the world cup. I will also undoubtedly disappoint other members given that we are looking to get out, but I will not take too long.Members will be aware that standing orders require the Parliamentar...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
Go on—why not?
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Jamie Hepburn) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I will move and speak to the motion, Presiding Officer.
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S7M-00346, on committee membership. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move the motion.17:16
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
That concludes the debate on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does Mr Kerr want to intervene? I will get the time back, so I am happy to take his point. No, he does not. Okay.We have already saved more than £50 million on estates. I thought that it was 12, but we have now, in fact, shut 13 Scottish Government buildings. Murdo Fraser has ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Mr Kerr, you know to try to intervene rather than to attack from a sedentary position.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I think that the confusion is more broad. The Reform manifesto talks about getting rid of all 130 public bodies—or “quangos”, as they call them. However, there is also a recognition from across the Reform benches that those public bodies—whether Police Scotland, the court syst...
Victor Currie (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Reform Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does the cabinet secretary recall that Max Bannerman’s point on community wind farms was that they do not rely on subsidies? Therefore, it forms no contradiction in Reform policy on our opposition to net zero.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Yes. David Barratt also draws out the important point that the inconsistency in the Reform position is quite apparent. Reform members say in their amendment that we should not be talking about this stuff, and then they go on to talk about it from very different and contradicto...
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
—renewable energy schemes and for community-owned wind. Does the cabinet secretary agree that that is not the kind of reform that we need?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Hello. It is not a speech within a speech. It is an intervention.
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In moving the Reform amendment, Malcolm Offord stated that the Scottish Government should have no remit on net zero and energy, and he suggested cutting public bodies that are responsible for related areas. In contrast, Max Bannerman noted the value of community wind power in ...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I will take David Barratt’s intervention, and then I will go on to talk about those other contributions.
David Barratt (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In principle, we need stability of funding and to recognise the great work that happens in community organisations, which I see every week in my constituency. That work is absolutely critical, because those organisations are, to a large extent, the front line, and their abilit...
Bob Doris SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I commend the comments on the third sector that we have heard in the chamber this afternoon. I draw the cabinet secretary’s attention to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee’s report on funding of the third and voluntary sectors, and I highlight the longer-term fun...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
On reflection, I am happy with the extent of the contributions that we have heard this afternoon. As I indicated at the outset, I was keen to hear from members, and that is what has happened for the most part. I will try to pick my way through the mind map that I have in front...
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Before I call the cabinet secretary, I say to members that, if they seek to make an intervention, they should remember to stand up and ask to make an intervention. I notice that buttons are pressed but, sometimes, the speakers do not see who is trying to intervene.17:05
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
We move to the open debate.15:58
Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I congratulate Ivan McKee—I will call him super Ivan, given the scale of his task, based on his speech and the vision that he has set out today.From listening to colleagues from across the chamber, I am struck that there is a lot of common ground here, and I think that we need...
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I begin by welcoming the cabinet secretary to his new role and wishing him well. As we have already heard, Mr McKee has been handed what might become the defining task of this Government, which is tackling the £5 billion black hole in Scotland’s finances. As Murdo Fraser has j...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I call Murdo Fraser, who joins us online.15:47
Michael Marra Lab Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I point gently to the fact that Alyn Smith’s party had an outright majority in the Parliament for one of those parliamentary sessions, so not having had the numbers is not a foolproof excuse.Alyn Smith will find common ground across different areas. My note of caution to him w...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I should explain that I am having to contribute remotely today due to a family issue; otherwise, I would be in the chamber.I welcome Ivan McKee to his new role as Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform. I know that he is keen to dispel the notion that he is here as an axe...
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Chamber

Plenary, 26 Mar 2008

26 Mar 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Health Care Associated Infection
We welcome all that Nicola Sturgeon has said today in her speech and her interventions, including the MRSA pilot that she announced, in what has been a useful debate on a matter on which there is often more fresh heat than fresh thought. This is one of those problems for which there is a commonsense remedy that is all too often absent, or the message is in danger of becoming overcomplicated in its delivery.

My experience of being a hospital patient is relatively recent, as an accident and emergency admission within the NHS with what turned out to be a fairly routinely diagnosed complaint of gall stones one year and kidney stones the next. After treatment had helped alleviate the immediate discomfort, I found it fascinating just to watch. So much is made of the experience of patients by politicians that—admittedly, this is almost a perverse logic—it was almost a privilege to be a politician who was also the patient.

It was fascinating to watch the endless stream of individuals who strolled through the men's general surgical ward. There were committed public servants going about their business and there were patients and their families. The newspaper trolley man was astonished and unable to oblige when I requested The Herald—he ensured that the ward was made aware of the special delivery for "the professor" the next day to my bed in a window corner. There was the self-evident suspicion of fellow patients at the various baskets and bowls of spring bulbs that were delivered to the same corner—it was seemingly further evidence of, at the very least, some extravagant erudition.

There was the delight of the man opposite me, whose colostomy bag burst frequently in the night, or of the Irishman in the bed next to me, who did a runner because, as he confided to me, "The Southern general makes a much better job of drilling open a seized rear end." He was replaced by a young gentleman substantially the worse for wear after a Scotland match, whose excessively noisy comeuppance through the night was less than endearing. The hospital porters arrived, like buses, all at once—sometimes to ferry patients who had blocked a bed throughout the day and night for a routine X-ray, after which they could be discharged, but who as a result of lack of organisation lingered on, so other patients could not be admitted.

The staff—nurses, doctors, consultants, deliverers of meals and cleaning staff—were all doing their best, and the other patients were an on-going delight. There was the disembodied conversation heard over the partitions between an elderly man, who asked, "When did you get in, son?" and a recent arrival, who responded, "Just the day, big man, and no for long. And yersel?" "1952", came the reply. There was a daily procession of visitors, family and friends.

Not once, on either admission, did I hear anyone being challenged, or asked, to wash or sterilise their hands or not sit on the beds, nor was I ever savaged by a tie—the poor defenceless tie, around which now can be heard the clamour of indignant outrage as it is identified as the source of all infection. Ties, if worn, were tucked away within a coat or a jersey.

It seems to me that the most obvious action is the one that is least applied—washing or sterilising hands. In part, that seemed to me to be because there was no dragon enforcing the rule. I know that Conservatives have in the past called for matron, and I hope and believe that that has been for practical reasons and not just to fantasise about the swish of uniformed authority—I look over my shoulder, but no, she is not here. What is needed is a figure who has both the authority and confidence to bawl at anyone—patient, visitor, visiting politician, nurse, doctor or consultant—that they should wash or sterilise their hands and not sit on the beds. It appears that there are currently too many different chimney stacks of employee accountability and that in this grievance-rich age no one is able or prepared to take the risk of assuming overall command.

In saying all that, I accept that developments in medicine now keep us on the go until a greater age, often when hospitalised and with longer recovery times, and that our potential exposure in wards for longer and in a weakened state is a consequence of that. Therefore, when the BMA tells us that

"compliance with hand hygiene among professionals varies as a result of a lack of understanding of the associated risks and a lack of knowledge of the basic guidelines",

I cannot help but feel that there is considerable window dressing of a perfectly simple and straightforward concept: people should wash or sterilise their hands regularly and thoroughly. For hospital professionals, doing that and addressing the associated issues that Irene Oldfather raised should be as routine as is putting on a seatbelt for the driver of a car.

I have sympathy with the BMA's concern about inappropriate prescribing of antibiotics. I read its briefing on that subject and instantly recognised my mother, who—like Jamie Stone's mother—is a serial attendee of her local general practitioner, with an unshakeable belief that an antibiotic is the cure for all ills, from something genuinely serious to a blocked kitchen sink. There is a widespread belief that, even if an antibiotic is inappropriate, no harm can be done, yet those who prescribe them must know that harm is being done, as resistances are diminished. Again, public education is important, but the resolve of the medical profession in the face of what sometimes amounts to badgering is necessary, too.

In general, we believe the Government to be sincere in its objectives and we will support it today and will watch with interest the emerging outcomes. If the measures are successful, they will be a considerable achievement that will benefit the NHS hugely. I started by saying that common sense ought to be the rule but, as I have observed before, the problem with common sense is that it is not very common. The challenge for the Government is to make it so.

I hope that I have not made light of the subject. My sister-in-law—a mother of three in her 40s—is in the later stages of facing the cruel fate of the complications arising from untreatable breast cancer. Her journey has been made all the more stressful and grim by a hospital-acquired infection along the way. For that reason alone, I hope that the Government's announcements have a successful outcome.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson): NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-1621, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on the health care associated infection task force.
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Nicola Sturgeon): SNP
I am pleased to open the debate and to present our ambitious new plans for tackling health care associated infection in Scotland during the next three years ...
Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab): Lab
I emphasise how much we in the Labour Party welcome the debate. We acknowledge that our amendment will be accepted. I associate myself with many of the point...
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
I hope that I can reassure Margaret Curran that the investment that we have set aside for the next three years is 260 per cent higher than the investment ove...
Margaret Curran: Lab
I will take that—graciously, I hope—as an indication of the cabinet secretary's commitment. However, as I understand it, England has prioritised the issue, a...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): Con
It is always good to follow the gracious Margaret Curran. The Conservatives welcome the debate on health care associated infection. We also welcome the inves...
Ross Finnie (West of Scotland) (LD): LD
I do not discern—and I suspect that, by the end of the debate, I will not discern—any disagreement with the proposition that, because health care associated ...
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
I am pleased to intervene on that very serious point. I hope that the member will take some reassurance from my pronunciation of "coherence" during my speech...
Ross Finnie: LD
I am greatly comforted. We must maintain standards in the chamber.Health care associated infection is a serious issue, and I welcome the debate. Margaret Cur...
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP): SNP
We have heard a lot—and I am confident that we will hear a lot more as the debate progresses—about the virtues of cleanliness in preventing health care assoc...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): Lab
I agree with Ross Finnie's suggestion that there is likely to be near unanimity on this vital issue. I welcome the cabinet secretary's announcements about th...
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
I am always happy to consider lessons from elsewhere, and I appreciate Helen Eadie's point, but I remind her that I mentioned our policy, which I launched ea...
Helen Eadie: Lab
I am sorry that the cabinet secretary feels aggrieved, but if she had been listening she would know that I congratulated the Government on its screening init...
Michael Matheson (Falkirk West) (SNP): SNP
I welcome the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing's statement. In the spirit of consensus, I acknowledge the work that the previous Labour and Liberal...
Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): Lab
I welcome the commitment that the cabinet secretary has made and the opportunity that the debate gives us to consider how we can reduce the risk of contracti...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con): Con
This debate on dealing with health care associated infections is extremely important. However, I cannot help feeling sad that the reputation of a health serv...
James Kelly (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in this afternoon's debate on health care associated infections. I endorse the cabinet secretary's announcement and, o...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP): SNP
The cabinet secretary is to be congratulated on this initiative. As the Labour amendment states, the previous Government is to be commended for the establish...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): Lab
Many members have talked about consensus, but consensus does not make the debate any less important—we should debate such issues.The cabinet secretary mentio...
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
Rhoda Grant makes an important point. It may be of interest to her and other members to know that we are working with the trade unions on a national uniform ...
Rhoda Grant: Lab
Yes. I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for that information. The BMA position shows that doctors have the will and wish to see the proposal progressed.W...
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): LD
I agree with nearly everything that has been said in this worthwhile debate. The unanimity of the message will be encouraging to patients and health professi...
Jackson Carlaw (West of Scotland) (Con): Con
We welcome all that Nicola Sturgeon has said today in her speech and her interventions, including the MRSA pilot that she announced, in what has been a usefu...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab): Lab
As all other members who have spoken have said, the debate has been consensual, informed and of a high standard. As Jamie Stone said, that should give comfor...
Nanette Milne: Con
My point was that it does not matter who actually does the cleaning. What is important is the supervision of a high standard of cleaning.
Dr Simpson: Lab
I hate to say this, but I could tell Nanette Milne numerous stories of when contract cleaners have come in, done their bit and gone away, leaving the questio...
The Minister for Public Health (Shona Robison): SNP
I have listened with interest to this constructive, stimulating and wide-ranging debate, which has served as a stark reminder that the Scottish Government an...