Chamber
Plenary, 15 Nov 2007
15 Nov 2007 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Scottish Legal Services Market
When we are debating legal structures, it is important that we focus on the people who require access to the legal system. Their needs must inform our decision making.
The legal system is here to protect and serve the public and must be fit for purpose. People must be able to access the system for their own protection and we need to take this opportunity to remove barriers for them.
The previous Government recognised the need for fair access for all. It recognised that people in rural areas had difficulty finding a defence solicitor funded by legal aid. To widen access, it set up the Public Defence Solicitors Office, to provide legal assistance and representation to those who faced criminal charges and who were eligible for legal aid.
In rural areas it is much more difficult for people to access solicitors who will undertake legal aid court work. That is because travelling time can mean that solicitors are limited to undertaking one case a day. Therefore, it is not financially feasible for a solicitor in private practice to provide the service because the cost to their business is not covered. In contrast, a court solicitor in a city can undertake several court cases on the same day. For example, a solicitor working in Inverness would be reluctant to deal with a case that would be heard in Portree sheriff court because that would take them away from their office for the time taken to deal with the case and an additional five or six hours travelling time. Although payment is available for travel time, it does not truly reflect the cost to the practice.
People in rural areas seeking civil legal aid face the same situation. The previous Government's decision to build on the good practice of the Public Defence Solicitors Office by initiating a public civil office to provide civil legal aid services in a similar manner was, therefore, a welcome development. The first such office will be set up in Inverness and will be hugely valuable to the surrounding rural areas. I am glad that this Government has continued to progress the development and is now appointing staff for the office. That will make it easier for people in rural areas to access civil legal aid services.
The lack of access in rural areas causes a great deal of inconvenience and harm to people who cannot afford to pay for their own legal services and to people who need access to family courts or interdicts to protect them from abusers. I therefore urge the minister to roll out other such offices in rural areas to ensure that everyone has access to civil legal aid and to provide equality of access to legal services regardless of where people live.
The legal system is here to protect and serve the public and must be fit for purpose. People must be able to access the system for their own protection and we need to take this opportunity to remove barriers for them.
The previous Government recognised the need for fair access for all. It recognised that people in rural areas had difficulty finding a defence solicitor funded by legal aid. To widen access, it set up the Public Defence Solicitors Office, to provide legal assistance and representation to those who faced criminal charges and who were eligible for legal aid.
In rural areas it is much more difficult for people to access solicitors who will undertake legal aid court work. That is because travelling time can mean that solicitors are limited to undertaking one case a day. Therefore, it is not financially feasible for a solicitor in private practice to provide the service because the cost to their business is not covered. In contrast, a court solicitor in a city can undertake several court cases on the same day. For example, a solicitor working in Inverness would be reluctant to deal with a case that would be heard in Portree sheriff court because that would take them away from their office for the time taken to deal with the case and an additional five or six hours travelling time. Although payment is available for travel time, it does not truly reflect the cost to the practice.
People in rural areas seeking civil legal aid face the same situation. The previous Government's decision to build on the good practice of the Public Defence Solicitors Office by initiating a public civil office to provide civil legal aid services in a similar manner was, therefore, a welcome development. The first such office will be set up in Inverness and will be hugely valuable to the surrounding rural areas. I am glad that this Government has continued to progress the development and is now appointing staff for the office. That will make it easier for people in rural areas to access civil legal aid services.
The lack of access in rural areas causes a great deal of inconvenience and harm to people who cannot afford to pay for their own legal services and to people who need access to family courts or interdicts to protect them from abusers. I therefore urge the minister to roll out other such offices in rural areas to ensure that everyone has access to civil legal aid and to provide equality of access to legal services regardless of where people live.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
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The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill):
SNP
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Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
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Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
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Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):
Lab
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Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
I intervene at Mr Martin's request. We accept that although the Law Society and the Faculty of Advocates each perform a pivotal role for their professions, t...
Paul Martin:
Lab
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The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I call Bill Aitken. Mr Aitken, as you have picked up, you basically have as long as you like.
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
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David Whitton (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab):
Lab
Okay, so the legal profession contributes £1.2 billion to the Scottish economy, but is Bill Aitken saying that legal fees should go up instead of some way be...
Bill Aitken:
Con
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The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I now call Mike Pringle, to whom the instructions that I gave Mr Aitken also apply.
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
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John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I congratulate the Cabinet Secretary for Justice on the motion and Pauline McNeill on her amendment. The Scottish Government is clearly attempting to develop...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
When we are debating legal structures, it is important that we focus on the people who require access to the legal system. Their needs must inform our decisi...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
I am grateful for the points made about civil legal aid. The Government's position has always been that we are happy to provide facilities for civil legal ai...
Rhoda Grant:
Lab
I understand the minister's point, but we have to consider the consumer—the person who needs the service. If they are saying that they are unable to access s...
Stuart McMillan (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I am sure that many members in the chamber are as delighted as I am at being dragooned into being here this morning.Scotland has a unique situation regarding...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
Excuse me, Mr McMillan.I do not know how many times I have to say this to members, but phones have to be switched off. Off.
Stuart McMillan:
SNP
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David Whitton (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab):
Lab
I speak to the amendment in the name of my colleague Pauline McNeill, with particular emphasis on widening choice and on easier access to more affordable leg...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
No, they have not. What the member says seems rather to contradict Mr Martin's points. Is Mr Whitton telling the chamber that he supports Tesco law?
David Whitton:
Lab
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Aileen Campbell (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
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Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
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Christopher Harvie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
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Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
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John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
I declare an interest as a member of the Law Society of England and Wales. I was a practising solicitor with Brodies until June 2007.Like many others who hav...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I declare an interest in that my husband is a practising advocate. However, competition, regulation and alternative business structures are not often the sub...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
Order. The member may wish to draw her remarks to a conclusion, to allow the minister adequate time to respond.