Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129

Current MSPs

415

MSPs ever elected

14

Parties on record

2,096,445

Hansard contributions

1999–2026

Coverage span

Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Showing 60 of 2,096,445 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,975. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 11 Jun 2026.

Speaker unknown Chamber

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

That concludes decision time.17:31The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The final question is, that motion S7M-00346, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on committee membership, be agreed to.Motion agreed to,That the Parliament agrees the membership of committees of the Parliament as follows—Climate Action Committ...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The result of the division on motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, is: For 67, Against 25, Abstentions 26.Motion, as amended, agreed to,That the Parliament welcomes that the...

Speaker unknown Chamber

ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Your vote has been recorded.

David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am sorry—I could not connect to the voting app. I would have abstained.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

There will be a division.The vote is closed.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The sixth question is, that motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, is: For 36, Against 67, Abstentions 16.Amendment disagreed to.

Speaker unknown Chamber

ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and Wes...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Your vote will be recorded.

Duncan Dunlop (South Scotland) (LD) LD Chamber

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I apologise—my vote was not recorded. I would have voted yes.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

There will be a division.The vote is closed.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The fifth question is, that amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is: For 26, Against 91, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.

Speaker unknown Chamber

ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Is...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

There will be a division.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, is: For 66, Against 27, Abstentions 26.Amendment agreed to.

Speaker unknown Chamber

ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

There will be a division.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, is: For 17, Against 92, Abstentions 9.Amendment disagreed to.

Speaker unknown Chamber

ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform)Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform)Langan, Jam...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

There will be a division.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Malcolm Offord is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Murdo Fraser will fall.The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan M...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, is: For 94, Against 15, Abstentions 9.Amendment agreed to.

Speaker unknown Chamber

ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Okay, thank you.

Lorna Slater (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Green Chamber

My apologies, Presiding Officer. That was left over from when the app was not working.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

We come to the vote on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee. Members should cast their vote now.The vote is closed.We have a point of order from Lorna Slater.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.17:18Meeting suspended.17:21On resuming—

The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber

There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users ...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Parliamentary Bureau Motion

The question on the motion will be put at decision time.

Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber

Parliamentary Bureau Motion

I hate to disappoint Ivan McKee, but his speech was not the last speech before the world cup. I will also undoubtedly disappoint other members given that we are looking to get out, but I will not take too long.Members will be aware that standing orders require the Parliamentar...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Parliamentary Bureau Motion

Go on—why not?

The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Jamie Hepburn) SNP Chamber

Parliamentary Bureau Motion

I will move and speak to the motion, Presiding Officer.

The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber

Parliamentary Bureau Motion

The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S7M-00346, on committee membership. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move the motion.17:16

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

That concludes the debate on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities.

Ivan McKee SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Does Mr Kerr want to intervene? I will get the time back, so I am happy to take his point. No, he does not. Okay.We have already saved more than £50 million on estates. I thought that it was 12, but we have now, in fact, shut 13 Scottish Government buildings. Murdo Fraser has ...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Mr Kerr, you know to try to intervene rather than to attack from a sedentary position.

Ivan McKee SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I think that the confusion is more broad. The Reform manifesto talks about getting rid of all 130 public bodies—or “quangos”, as they call them. However, there is also a recognition from across the Reform benches that those public bodies—whether Police Scotland, the court syst...

Victor Currie (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Reform Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Does the cabinet secretary recall that Max Bannerman’s point on community wind farms was that they do not rely on subsidies? Therefore, it forms no contradiction in Reform policy on our opposition to net zero.

Ivan McKee SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Yes. David Barratt also draws out the important point that the inconsistency in the Reform position is quite apparent. Reform members say in their amendment that we should not be talking about this stuff, and then they go on to talk about it from very different and contradicto...

David Barratt SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

—renewable energy schemes and for community-owned wind. Does the cabinet secretary agree that that is not the kind of reform that we need?

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Hello. It is not a speech within a speech. It is an intervention.

David Barratt SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

In moving the Reform amendment, Malcolm Offord stated that the Scottish Government should have no remit on net zero and energy, and he suggested cutting public bodies that are responsible for related areas. In contrast, Max Bannerman noted the value of community wind power in ...

Ivan McKee SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I will take David Barratt’s intervention, and then I will go on to talk about those other contributions.

David Barratt (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?

Ivan McKee SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

In principle, we need stability of funding and to recognise the great work that happens in community organisations, which I see every week in my constituency. That work is absolutely critical, because those organisations are, to a large extent, the front line, and their abilit...

Bob Doris SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I commend the comments on the third sector that we have heard in the chamber this afternoon. I draw the cabinet secretary’s attention to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee’s report on funding of the third and voluntary sectors, and I highlight the longer-term fun...

Ivan McKee SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

On reflection, I am happy with the extent of the contributions that we have heard this afternoon. As I indicated at the outset, I was keen to hear from members, and that is what has happened for the most part. I will try to pick my way through the mind map that I have in front...

The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Before I call the cabinet secretary, I say to members that, if they seek to make an intervention, they should remember to stand up and ask to make an intervention. I notice that buttons are pressed but, sometimes, the speakers do not see who is trying to intervene.17:05

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

We move to the open debate.15:58

Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I congratulate Ivan McKee—I will call him super Ivan, given the scale of his task, based on his speech and the vision that he has set out today.From listening to colleagues from across the chamber, I am struck that there is a lot of common ground here, and I think that we need...

David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I begin by welcoming the cabinet secretary to his new role and wishing him well. As we have already heard, Mr McKee has been handed what might become the defining task of this Government, which is tackling the £5 billion black hole in Scotland’s finances. As Murdo Fraser has j...

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I call Murdo Fraser, who joins us online.15:47

Michael Marra Lab Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I point gently to the fact that Alyn Smith’s party had an outright majority in the Parliament for one of those parliamentary sessions, so not having had the numbers is not a foolproof excuse.Alyn Smith will find common ground across different areas. My note of caution to him w...

Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I should explain that I am having to contribute remotely today due to a family issue; otherwise, I would be in the chamber.I welcome Ivan McKee to his new role as Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform. I know that he is keen to dispel the notion that he is here as an axe...

← Back to list

Chamber

Plenary, 19 Sep 2007

19 Sep 2007 · S3 · Plenary

Item of business

NHS Waiting Times

Simpson, Dr Richard Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

I add to my colleague's remarks about being glad to be in my new position to lock horns with Nicola Sturgeon and Shona Robison.

I am glad that the cabinet secretary has accepted the principles of Labour's proposals. As a doctor looking at the Government's overly complex attempt to micromanage the system from the centre, I believe that the substantial administrative burden that the cabinet secretary outlined today in her detailed proposals will require substantial additional resources and take up a lot of doctors', nurses' and allied professionals' time.

I ask first for clarification: will the list still be managed and dealt with separately from the general waiting list? In other words, will it be called an unavailability status code list instead of an availability status code list?

I will take a slightly different tack with my other question. The new system that Nicola Sturgeon proposes today, complicated as it is, will be further complicated if she persists in her pursuit of legally binding guarantees on top of all the new complexity. Is she aware that under the much-vaunted Norwegian model of legal guarantees, the number of people on waiting lists increased in two years from 210,000 to 260,000 and, more important, that the number of violations of the code and guarantee doubled from 5,000 to 10,000? I suggest that, if the cabinet secretary persists with this complexity and with the introduction of legal guarantees, lawyers will become more and more involved. Does she accept that the SNP's soundbite pledge on legal guarantees should be dropped?

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson): NPA

We move to the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing on national health service waiting times. The cabinet secretary will take question...

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Nicola Sturgeon): SNP

I am pleased to have this opportunity to bring members up to date with important changes in how patients' waiting times will be measured in the NHS in Scotla...

The Presiding Officer: NPA

As I intimated earlier, the cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues that were raised in her statement. I hope to allow around 40 minutes for ...

Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab): Lab

I thank the minister for providing me with an advance copy of her statement. I welcome my appointment to the health brief and look forward to many consensual...

Nicola Sturgeon: SNP

If Margaret Curran is right in saying that the abolition of availability status codes was Labour's idea all along, I presume that she knows how much it will ...

Margaret Curran rose— Lab

Nicola Sturgeon: SNP

The member cannot intervene while I am answering her question. I know that she is new to her post, but she is not new to Parliament.

The Presiding Officer: NPA

This is not a debate; it is a question-and-answer session.

Nicola Sturgeon: SNP

Under the new system there will be no more hidden waiting lists and figures will be published. Margaret Curran said that the detail on availability status co...

Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP): SNP

I thank the cabinet secretary for her statement and welcome the Government's decision to abolish hidden waiting lists—in the spirit of consensus, shall we ca...

Nicola Sturgeon: SNP

As I tried to say in my statement, an important balance must be struck between patient flexibility and the need of the NHS to have stability and not to have ...

Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab): Lab

I add to my colleague's remarks about being glad to be in my new position to lock horns with Nicola Sturgeon and Shona Robison.I am glad that the cabinet sec...

Nicola Sturgeon: SNP

I welcome Richard Simpson to his position and look forward to robust but consensual debate.As for Dr Simpson's questions, one list will be published, but pat...

Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): Con

I, too, welcome Margaret Curran to her new health post, as it means that we are likely to have some feisty and interesting debates about health during the ne...

Nicola Sturgeon: SNP

I thank Mary Scanlon for her questions and will—logically—take the first one first. All patients are treated on the basis of clinical need and priority. A ma...

Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP

I commend the cabinet secretary for the clarity and accountability of the new process. I recommend that she provides, posthaste, explanatory leaflets to the ...

Nicola Sturgeon: SNP

I thank Christine Grahame for her question. I assure her that explanatory leaflets are being provided to the Opposition, as well as to GPs and patients aroun...

Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): LD

I, too, thank the cabinet secretary for the advance copy of her statement.I want to press the cabinet secretary on an issue that she has inadvertently not ad...

Nicola Sturgeon: SNP

The new system will be delivered from within the NHS boards' existing financial and staffing resources. The health directorates are working closely with heal...

Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab): Lab

I want to press the cabinet secretary on audiology waiting times. Waiting times for audiology services in central and west Fife are reasonable, but the figur...

Nicola Sturgeon: SNP

I am more than happy to clarify that point for Claire Baker. First, I agree that audiology waiting times are far too long, which is perhaps one of the legaci...

Aileen Campbell (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP

I whole-heartedly applaud the Government's statement. My question is about not hidden waiting lists per se, but waiting times in general. Does the cabinet se...

Nicola Sturgeon: SNP

I do not find it difficult to be consensual on that last point.It is not possible for me to comment on the detail of individual cases, but if Aileen Campbell...

Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): Lab

What improvements have taken place as a result of the extra measures to tackle cancer waiting times in the NHS Highland area that were announced in August? W...

Nicola Sturgeon: SNP

Yes, I can give that assurance.With the Presiding Officer's permission, I will take a little time to answer Rhoda Grant's questions about cancer waiting time...

Jackson Carlaw (West of Scotland) (Con): Con

Like most members, I welcome the cabinet secretary's statement and congratulate her on it. That said, members are entitled to be reasonably concerned about t...

Nicola Sturgeon: SNP

I will be accountable—as will the entire Government—for the delivery of our manifesto commitment on waiting times.As I have said previously in the chamber, h...

Bill Kidd (Glasgow) (SNP): SNP

I thank the cabinet secretary for her statement. As a former health board worker, I have observed the present system and welcome the new, fairer system. What...

Nicola Sturgeon: SNP

The question is an important one. As I said, simply changing the system does not necessarily solve the problem. When a shift was made from deferred waiting l...

Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD): LD

The cabinet secretary said that nearly 2,000 patients with an ASC had waited over a year for their treatment on the ground that they were medically unfit. Wi...