Chamber
Plenary, 06 Jun 2007
06 Jun 2007 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Moving Water (Rescue Arrangements)
I thank all those who have stayed to contribute to and listen to this evening's debate. In particular, I thank Roseanna Cunningham for initiating the first members' business debate of the third session of the Scottish Parliament. I am aware that Roseanna has pursued the issue as a result of a constituent's coming to see her about a problem, and that she has done so tenaciously and doggedly, as is her wont. I believe that that doggedness is not about to cease and I welcome the opportunity that her motion has given us to debate the issues that arise from it.
The primary statutory duty for protecting life rests with the police, which is the main point that I made in response to the oral question that Roseanna Cunningham asked on the matter last week. However, out of respect for her and for the importance of the issue—given that lives are at stake—I decided to look up the relevant statutory provisions, which are contained in the Police (Scotland) Act 1967, as amended. The act sets out the overarching duty of the constables of a police force. It is:
"to guard, patrol and watch so as—
(i) to prevent the commission of offences.
(ii) to preserve order, and
(iii) to protect life and property".
Plainly, this debate is concerned with the protection of life element of the duty. The motto of the police is "Semper vigilo", so it is important to set in context the fact that their overarching responsibility is to discharge that statutory function in Scotland. They might well carry out that duty in partnership with the fire and rescue services; with, as Elizabeth Smith pointed out, mountain rescue; with, as Jamie McGrigor mentioned, the coastguard; and with others. However, we must not forget that, under the law, the police alone have that primary statutory responsibility.
Given that the duty already rests with the police, I am not convinced that there is a need to extend it to anyone else. Indeed, in ways that I hope to develop, it might be counterproductive to do so. Fire and rescue services can and do respond to requests for assistance from the police, and there is no question of their ever refusing to attend.
Elizabeth Smith, in particular, highlighted the issue of flooding. As a result of an episode in Tayside, the Fire (Additional Function) (Scotland) Order 2005 placed a new responsibility on fire and rescue services to make provision for
"rescuing people trapped, or likely to become trapped, by water … in the event of"
flooding. I can inform Parliament that more than £500,000 has been spent on equipping our eight fire and rescue services with dry suits, boots, gloves, personal flotation devices, floating stretchers and rescue sleds to ensure that they comply with the terms of that order. I also know that thermal imaging equipment, which is particularly valuable in locating a body in moving water, has been purchased and is available. Each fire and rescue service now has such water rescue equipment, but the key point is that we need to distinguish between still and fast-moving water.
The equipment that has been provided under the 2005 order is essentially for use in flooded areas that would under normal circumstances be classed as dry land. However, it is much more dangerous to effect a rescue in moving water. Indeed, that very fact was highlighted just this week with the sad death of a young boy in the River Ayr. I am sure that we would all want to emphasise the extreme danger of swimming in, or even entering, moving water. As I recall from my climbing days, the force of water even in very small burns can be huge and can take a person completely unawares. The point is that we must distinguish between flooding and rivers.
I am duty bound to make it clear that Tom Brown, to whose courage I paid tribute last week, acted outwith the standing instructions. However, I have been informed by officials that no disciplinary action against him has been considered. Nevertheless, I say to Roseanna Cunningham that I seek further comments from each police constabulary and fire and rescue service to address the point that has been raised by various members about the need for more equipment and training.
The primary statutory duty for protecting life rests with the police, which is the main point that I made in response to the oral question that Roseanna Cunningham asked on the matter last week. However, out of respect for her and for the importance of the issue—given that lives are at stake—I decided to look up the relevant statutory provisions, which are contained in the Police (Scotland) Act 1967, as amended. The act sets out the overarching duty of the constables of a police force. It is:
"to guard, patrol and watch so as—
(i) to prevent the commission of offences.
(ii) to preserve order, and
(iii) to protect life and property".
Plainly, this debate is concerned with the protection of life element of the duty. The motto of the police is "Semper vigilo", so it is important to set in context the fact that their overarching responsibility is to discharge that statutory function in Scotland. They might well carry out that duty in partnership with the fire and rescue services; with, as Elizabeth Smith pointed out, mountain rescue; with, as Jamie McGrigor mentioned, the coastguard; and with others. However, we must not forget that, under the law, the police alone have that primary statutory responsibility.
Given that the duty already rests with the police, I am not convinced that there is a need to extend it to anyone else. Indeed, in ways that I hope to develop, it might be counterproductive to do so. Fire and rescue services can and do respond to requests for assistance from the police, and there is no question of their ever refusing to attend.
Elizabeth Smith, in particular, highlighted the issue of flooding. As a result of an episode in Tayside, the Fire (Additional Function) (Scotland) Order 2005 placed a new responsibility on fire and rescue services to make provision for
"rescuing people trapped, or likely to become trapped, by water … in the event of"
flooding. I can inform Parliament that more than £500,000 has been spent on equipping our eight fire and rescue services with dry suits, boots, gloves, personal flotation devices, floating stretchers and rescue sleds to ensure that they comply with the terms of that order. I also know that thermal imaging equipment, which is particularly valuable in locating a body in moving water, has been purchased and is available. Each fire and rescue service now has such water rescue equipment, but the key point is that we need to distinguish between still and fast-moving water.
The equipment that has been provided under the 2005 order is essentially for use in flooded areas that would under normal circumstances be classed as dry land. However, it is much more dangerous to effect a rescue in moving water. Indeed, that very fact was highlighted just this week with the sad death of a young boy in the River Ayr. I am sure that we would all want to emphasise the extreme danger of swimming in, or even entering, moving water. As I recall from my climbing days, the force of water even in very small burns can be huge and can take a person completely unawares. The point is that we must distinguish between flooding and rivers.
I am duty bound to make it clear that Tom Brown, to whose courage I paid tribute last week, acted outwith the standing instructions. However, I have been informed by officials that no disciplinary action against him has been considered. Nevertheless, I say to Roseanna Cunningham that I seek further comments from each police constabulary and fire and rescue service to address the point that has been raised by various members about the need for more equipment and training.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
The final item of business is a members' business debate on motion S3M-81, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on rescue from moving water. The debate will b...
Motion debated,
That the Parliament notes with concern the rising number of incidents involving persons trapped in moving water, including incidents in the River Tay at Pert...
Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP):
SNP
Perhaps rescue from broken podiums might be more appropriate.I make it clear from the outset that the phrase "persons trapped in moving water" is the termino...
Elizabeth Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I congratulate Roseanna Cunningham on securing the debate and commend her diligence in seeking answers to the questions that, as yet, remain unanswered. I ex...
Stefan Tymkewycz (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I commend Lothian and Borders Fire and Rescue Service for being one of the few rescue services that has specifically trained personnel for specialised water ...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
It is unfortunate, to say the least, that not one member of the Labour Party and not one Liberal Democrat is attending the debate.
Jim Tolson (Dunfermline West) (LD) rose—
LD
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I apologise to the member and beg his pardon. I should have said only that not one member of the Labour Party is attending the debate. I hope that there will...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I congratulate Roseanna Cunningham on securing the debate, not only because this is the first members' debate in the new session, but because the issue is im...
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I congratulate Roseanna Cunningham on bringing this important matter to the chamber. I speak as an MSP for the Highlands and Islands, which contains many fas...
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing):
SNP
I thank all those who have stayed to contribute to and listen to this evening's debate. In particular, I thank Roseanna Cunningham for initiating the first m...
Roseanna Cunningham:
SNP
Does the minister accept that, notwithstanding the statutory position, the import of the many letters that I have received from various constabularies around...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
I understand entirely the point that Roseanna Cunningham makes. In mountain rescue, although the legal duty rests with the police, many rescues are carried o...
Meeting closed at 17:32.