Chamber
Plenary, 24 Nov 2005
24 Nov 2005 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Section 12 is intended to exclude agricultural holdings from the repairing standard. An agricultural holding is primarily let for an agricultural purpose. If there is a house on the holding, that is a secondary issue and, accordingly, it should be excluded. In practice, the maintenance of the house is normally the tenant's responsibility under an agricultural holding agreement. For both those reasons, it is inappropriate for the landlord of such a holding to have the same responsibilities as a landlord letting a house in the normal way. That was recognised in previous legislation and we are carrying that recognition through into the modernised legislation.
The committee was concerned that the definition might not cover all the situations in which those considerations apply. Therefore, we have reconsidered the issue and in amendment 72 have expanded the definition to include the new types of tenancy introduced by the Agricultural Holdings (Scotland) Act 2003 and also crofts and smallholdings.
Mary Scanlon's amendments 73 to 76 seek to achieve the same effect, but do so less comprehensively, refer not to the house but to the holding and do not allow for the situation of a farmer who lets a house to a third party. When that happens, it is right that the farmer should meet the requirements of the repairing standard, but Mary Scanlon's amendments would relieve him or her of that obligation.
On a more detailed point, amendment 73 deals with cottars. Cottars' houses that are on crofts or agricultural holdings will be caught and exempted by amendment 72. We do not feel that other cottars' houses would fall within the general principle on which amendment 72 is based—that the prime purpose of the tenancy is to run an agricultural unit—but if further clarification on that point is desirable we will consider using the general ancillary power to make supplemental provision. I therefore ask Mary Scanlon not to move amendments 73 to 76.
Amendment 87 deals with a different aspect of the protections afforded by the provisions in the bill. The existing definition of a tenancy includes any occupation of living accommodation under a person's terms of employment. The amendment would alter the definition of a tenancy so that it includes only tied tenancies where the house is leased and it is ancillary to the person's terms of employment. People whose occupation of a tied house did not fall within that narrower definition would be denied the protections of the repairing standard or the tenant's right to make adaptations to suit a disabled occupant. It is hard to see why such a person should not have those protections or why a reasonable employer who provides a house should not want them to apply to the employee. After all, the house is provided in exchange for the occupant's rent or, in the case of tied tenancies, the occupant's labour.
Perhaps even more important, amendment 87 could open up a loophole for an unreasonable employer to avoid the obligations by providing the house under an occupancy arrangement rather than a lease.
I move amendment 72.
The committee was concerned that the definition might not cover all the situations in which those considerations apply. Therefore, we have reconsidered the issue and in amendment 72 have expanded the definition to include the new types of tenancy introduced by the Agricultural Holdings (Scotland) Act 2003 and also crofts and smallholdings.
Mary Scanlon's amendments 73 to 76 seek to achieve the same effect, but do so less comprehensively, refer not to the house but to the holding and do not allow for the situation of a farmer who lets a house to a third party. When that happens, it is right that the farmer should meet the requirements of the repairing standard, but Mary Scanlon's amendments would relieve him or her of that obligation.
On a more detailed point, amendment 73 deals with cottars. Cottars' houses that are on crofts or agricultural holdings will be caught and exempted by amendment 72. We do not feel that other cottars' houses would fall within the general principle on which amendment 72 is based—that the prime purpose of the tenancy is to run an agricultural unit—but if further clarification on that point is desirable we will consider using the general ancillary power to make supplemental provision. I therefore ask Mary Scanlon not to move amendments 73 to 76.
Amendment 87 deals with a different aspect of the protections afforded by the provisions in the bill. The existing definition of a tenancy includes any occupation of living accommodation under a person's terms of employment. The amendment would alter the definition of a tenancy so that it includes only tied tenancies where the house is leased and it is ancillary to the person's terms of employment. People whose occupation of a tied house did not fall within that narrower definition would be denied the protections of the repairing standard or the tenant's right to make adaptations to suit a disabled occupant. It is hard to see why such a person should not have those protections or why a reasonable employer who provides a house should not want them to apply to the employee. After all, the house is provided in exchange for the occupant's rent or, in the case of tied tenancies, the occupant's labour.
Perhaps even more important, amendment 87 could open up a loophole for an unreasonable employer to avoid the obligations by providing the house under an occupancy arrangement rather than a lease.
I move amendment 72.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
We move to stage 3 proceedings on the Housing (Scotland) Bill.I will make the usual announcement about the procedures to be followed. We will deal with the a...
Section 10—Local housing strategies
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 1 is on local housing strategies. Amendment 70, in the name of the minister, is the only amendment in the group.
The Deputy Minister for Communities (Johann Lamont):
Lab
Amendment 70 responds to an amendment at stage 2 from Cathie Craigie, which intended to ensure that the use of assistance to improve housing conditions in th...
Amendment 70 agreed to.
Section 12—Tenancies to which repairing standard duty applies
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 2 is on tenancies that are wholly or partly exempt from provisions of the bill. Amendment 72, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 7...
The Minister for Communities (Malcolm Chisholm):
Lab
Section 12 is intended to exclude agricultural holdings from the repairing standard. An agricultural holding is primarily let for an agricultural purpose. If...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I have found this part of the bill quite complex and, at stage 3, the issues are becoming even more complex.Amendments 73 to 76 address issues with the origi...
Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD):
LD
I thank the minister for lodging amendment 72, which covers the points that the committee was concerned about. It clarifies and extends the exemptions in an ...
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
There are two ways of looking at section 12. First, I will deal with the legalities and technicalities of the repairing standard duty. More fundamentally, I ...
Amendment 72 agreed to.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Amendments 73 to 76 are therefore pre-empted.
Section 13—The repairing standard
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 3 is on fire safety. Amendment 5, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 6, 53, 69, and 7.
Johann Lamont:
Lab
Amendments 5, 6, 53, 69, and 7 will incorporate fire detection measures in the modernised repairing standard in chapter 4 of part 1 of the bill. The issue me...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
I am very content with amendments 5 and 6. I would like to press the minister on the words "building regulations". In my experience, the building control sys...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
I recognise the point that Donald Gorrie makes. He is right that many of the concerns about planning relate to the perceived inability to enforce standards. ...
Amendment 5 agreed to.
Amendment 6 moved—Johann Lamont—and agreed to.
Section 23—Referral to private rented housing committee
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 4 is on decisions by the president of the private rented housing panel. Amendment 80, in the name of Christine Grahame, is grouped with amendments 81 a...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
The amendments are all linked. I hope that the minister understands the spirit in which I lodged them. They aim to assist in the process of determining an ap...
Euan Robson:
LD
I recognise the spirit in which the amendments have been lodged, but perhaps they are too prescriptive and it would be relevant to cover the matter in guidan...
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
I appreciate why Christine Grahame wants to build the extra elements in question into the procedures of the private rented housing panel, but it is not neces...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I am delighted by the minister's response, which will appear in the Official Report—that is what I really sought. In the circumstances, I seek to withdraw am...
Amendment 80, by agreement, withdrawn.
Amendments 81 and 82 not moved.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 5 is on procedural matters relating to the determination on the repairing standard. Amendment 11, in the name of Malcolm Chisholm, is grouped with amen...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
The amendments respond to amendments that Tricia Marwick lodged at stage 2—obviously, we have good cop and good cop today. Those amendments dealt with notifi...