Chamber
Plenary, 01 Jun 2005
01 Jun 2005 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Transport (Scotland) Act 2001
As Des McNulty said, the importance of the report is that it attempts to monitor the implementation of previous legislation. When the other Deputy Presiding Officer, Trish Godman, was convener of the Local Government Committee, she said that that was an important function of any committee.
It is important that we identify the difficulties and try, as far as possible, to make them good in new legislation. The big chance for us to do that is the Transport (Scotland) Bill. The example that many speakers have quoted is the quality contracts and partnerships. None has been set up yet. John Scott spoke about them negatively, but we heard evidence about the difficulties in setting them up. We also asked how the voluntary partnership arrangements are working and whether we need quality contracts and partnerships. If they are needed, as many members have said, what are the barriers and how might we overcome those?
We got a mixed picture when we considered the voluntary partnerships that are now working. Margaret Smith talked about the variety throughout Scotland. Good examples of partnership are operating, which the minister notes in his response to the committee's report. We heard from John Home Robertson, Paul Martin and the people who came to the committee's seminar in Glasgow that all is not well in places such as Glasgow. It was decided that in future quality partnerships and quality contracts might be needed. We raised that with the minister, who suggested in his letter that there might be a role for the regional transport partnerships, which are part of the bill. At stage 2, we spent time considering the functions of the RTPs. There might be further amendments on that issue.
I turn to some of the other issues from the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001. The big success story is concessionary fares, as Margaret Smith said. Although they have been a success, certain issues have arisen. I believe that there was a sigh of relief when the minister announced that the 16 schemes would be replaced by a national scheme. We also know that, in the early days of those schemes, we had to make special pleas to ensure that express services, such as the ones from Stirling to Edinburgh or Glasgow, would be included in the concessionary scheme, even if that meant that a small amount of money had to be paid.
The evidence also revealed that there is no point in having a concessionary fares scheme if there is no service for people to use. In some areas, that is a problem, but that is balanced in other areas. For example, Arriva ran more buses between Glasgow and Largs than previously and had better buses overall, showing that concessionary fares can make a service better.
We also considered whether the ownership arrangements of a bus company affected its ability to operate effectively and invest in improvements and examined issues such as flexibility and how bus companies had been able to adjust in order to meet factors such as a new hospital opening up. In certain cases, the service had not been flexible. For example, we found that, even though a health centre in Glasgow had been closed, a bus service was still going there.
We found examples of innovation. In my constituency, the postbus that runs in Killin and some of the rural areas has been welcomed. We asked about low-level buses and the various investment procedures that companies are using. Brian Souter, FirstGroup and Lothian Buses were all clear about the ways in which they were investing and modernising.
We heard about the franchising system in London and were heartened to receive a letter from the minister that indicated that he will be talking with the Greater London Authority about its proposals.
We examined deregulation and heard about cherry picking. We also heard about the competition that followed deregulation and about the fact that facilities in some areas did not allow some companies to expand as they might have wanted to.
A question that has come out of this inquiry is how we can deal with market-based issues alongside the social aspects of a bus service. It cannot be said that there is a lack of input from the Scottish Executive. In one of his letters, the minister talked about the funding allocation of £235 million under the Executive's public transport fund. He also spoke about the £2.6 million that is being invested in the current financial year through the local government settlement for transport authorities to support socially necessary services. Bringing those two aspects together is the main issue before us.
I was pleased with the part of the inquiry that dealt with the Bus User Complaints Tribunal. Hopefully, with the minister's help, we will be able to examine how the tribunal's remit can be extended and how it can be given more teeth.
I commend the report to Parliament.
It is important that we identify the difficulties and try, as far as possible, to make them good in new legislation. The big chance for us to do that is the Transport (Scotland) Bill. The example that many speakers have quoted is the quality contracts and partnerships. None has been set up yet. John Scott spoke about them negatively, but we heard evidence about the difficulties in setting them up. We also asked how the voluntary partnership arrangements are working and whether we need quality contracts and partnerships. If they are needed, as many members have said, what are the barriers and how might we overcome those?
We got a mixed picture when we considered the voluntary partnerships that are now working. Margaret Smith talked about the variety throughout Scotland. Good examples of partnership are operating, which the minister notes in his response to the committee's report. We heard from John Home Robertson, Paul Martin and the people who came to the committee's seminar in Glasgow that all is not well in places such as Glasgow. It was decided that in future quality partnerships and quality contracts might be needed. We raised that with the minister, who suggested in his letter that there might be a role for the regional transport partnerships, which are part of the bill. At stage 2, we spent time considering the functions of the RTPs. There might be further amendments on that issue.
I turn to some of the other issues from the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001. The big success story is concessionary fares, as Margaret Smith said. Although they have been a success, certain issues have arisen. I believe that there was a sigh of relief when the minister announced that the 16 schemes would be replaced by a national scheme. We also know that, in the early days of those schemes, we had to make special pleas to ensure that express services, such as the ones from Stirling to Edinburgh or Glasgow, would be included in the concessionary scheme, even if that meant that a small amount of money had to be paid.
The evidence also revealed that there is no point in having a concessionary fares scheme if there is no service for people to use. In some areas, that is a problem, but that is balanced in other areas. For example, Arriva ran more buses between Glasgow and Largs than previously and had better buses overall, showing that concessionary fares can make a service better.
We also considered whether the ownership arrangements of a bus company affected its ability to operate effectively and invest in improvements and examined issues such as flexibility and how bus companies had been able to adjust in order to meet factors such as a new hospital opening up. In certain cases, the service had not been flexible. For example, we found that, even though a health centre in Glasgow had been closed, a bus service was still going there.
We found examples of innovation. In my constituency, the postbus that runs in Killin and some of the rural areas has been welcomed. We asked about low-level buses and the various investment procedures that companies are using. Brian Souter, FirstGroup and Lothian Buses were all clear about the ways in which they were investing and modernising.
We heard about the franchising system in London and were heartened to receive a letter from the minister that indicated that he will be talking with the Greater London Authority about its proposals.
We examined deregulation and heard about cherry picking. We also heard about the competition that followed deregulation and about the fact that facilities in some areas did not allow some companies to expand as they might have wanted to.
A question that has come out of this inquiry is how we can deal with market-based issues alongside the social aspects of a bus service. It cannot be said that there is a lack of input from the Scottish Executive. In one of his letters, the minister talked about the funding allocation of £235 million under the Executive's public transport fund. He also spoke about the £2.6 million that is being invested in the current financial year through the local government settlement for transport authorities to support socially necessary services. Bringing those two aspects together is the main issue before us.
I was pleased with the part of the inquiry that dealt with the Bus User Complaints Tribunal. Hopefully, with the minister's help, we will be able to examine how the tribunal's remit can be extended and how it can be given more teeth.
I commend the report to Parliament.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-2854, in the name of Bristow Muldoon, on behalf of the Local Government and Transport Committee, on its i...
Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab):
Lab
In deciding on the Local Government and Transport Committee's work programme, members believed that it would be useful to undertake post-legislative scrutiny...
Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):
Lab
I want to pick up on that point. I have travelled around the country and it strikes me that much of the soft passenger information is much better and that, a...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
I agree entirely. Ensuring that bus passengers and people who are not currently bus users have access to accurate information about timetables and real-time ...
That the Parliament notes the recommendations contained in the Local Government and Transport Committee’s 4th Report 2005 (Session 2):
Inquiry into issues arising from the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001 (SP Paper 316).
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
I was not a member of the Local Government and Transport Committee when it began its deliberations; I came in at the end. I convey the apologies of Bruce Cra...
Brian Adam (Aberdeen North) (SNP):
SNP
They are on the bus.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Brian Adam reliably informs me that they are on the bus.It is clear that quality contracts and quality partnerships are a solution that, when examined closel...
David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
This is the last time that I will speak in this Parliament, at least for a while, and I am very pleased to speak in this particular debate. For me, there is ...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way?
David Mundell:
Con
I will indeed.
Des McNulty:
Lab
Given that so many of his colleagues are in the chamber to hear him, I am sure that David Mundell's maiden speech as the shadow Scottish secretary cannot be ...
David Mundell:
Con
My committee colleague Paul Martin pointed out this afternoon that Mr Michael Martin and I are single-party House of Commons representatives from Scotland. T...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):
Lab
I put on record my appreciation for the convener of the Local Government and Transport Committee, Bristow Muldoon, for his indulgence during the inquiry. Non...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
We move to the open debate. I want to call as many back benchers as I can, so I ask for four-minute speeches.
Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I tender my apologies for the discourtesy of not being in the chamber for the opening speeches. Regrettably, and as is often the case, my media interview did...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate, which is important, not least because it is David Mundell's last debate in this Parliament. He has cherry p...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
Sometimes we in the chamber congratulate ourselves on passing legislation, and we are right to do so. However, occasionally we should take a look at what has...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con):
Con
I am well aware that the fact that I was not a member of the Local Government and Transport Committee that compiled the report puts me at something of a disa...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
Will the member give way?
John Scott:
Con
I will do so in a moment.The Parliament should also note the National Federation of Bus Users written submission, which states:"the interest of bus users has...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
If the policies that have been pursued by the Executive and by the Labour Government since 1997 have been so wrong, why has bus patronage been rising consist...
John Scott:
Con
The change is due to the voluntary arrangements that have been put in place. It is certainly nothing to do with the quality partnerships or quality contracts...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Much of what I will say concerns those areas of Scotland in which support from local authorities and from the new regional transport partnerships will be nec...
Chris Ballance (South of Scotland) (Green):
Green
We hear a lot in the chamber about rail, but it is bus travel that is most important to Scots on a daily basis. Dumfries and Galloway and the Borders—an area...
Mr John Home Robertson (East Lothian) (Lab):
Lab
I am grateful to members of the Local Government and Transport Committee for their work on the report. I am even more grateful to Sarah Boyack, who was the m...
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD):
LD
I am still slightly confused about where those 158 stations in the Highlands are. Perhaps I will have a look at my map later and find them. I am pleased that...
Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):
Lab
As Des McNulty said, the importance of the report is that it attempts to monitor the implementation of previous legislation. When the other Deputy Presiding ...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
I agree with other members of the committee who worked on the report that the clerks, parliamentary staff and those who gave evidence contributed in importan...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
Will the member give way?