Chamber
Plenary, 01 Jun 2005
01 Jun 2005 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Transport (Scotland) Act 2001
I tender my apologies for the discourtesy of not being in the chamber for the opening speeches. Regrettably, and as is often the case, my media interview did not proceed at the time that it was supposed to.
It is appropriate that we are reviewing the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001. Such review is part and parcel of the legislative process and the purpose of the Scottish Parliament. We are a unicameral Parliament, so we have to make legislation without having the opportunity to review matters. Some time after legislation has been introduced, therefore, it is appropriate that we should pause and reflect on whether what we sought to achieve has been achieved; whether the act is working well; whether things can be improved; and what amendments we need to make. When we do that, it is appropriate that we look at issues in Scotland in terms of the glass being half full rather than half empty. It is clear that some aspects have not worked out as well as we would have liked, but significant process has been made in other areas.
A difficulty for the committee is that there may have to be a further review because, to some extent, the ground is shifting under our feet. The decision, which I and the SNP support, to introduce regional transport partnerships is long overdue. We can use that method to provide in other areas of Scotland what currently exists in the west of Scotland. The representation from that area here today makes it clear that we must not throw the baby out with the bathwater in respect of what has served the west of Scotland well through the SPT.
Regional partnerships represent progress, in that one of the difficulties for buses is that they transcend local authority borders. Local authorities face significant difficulty in many regards. We must consider the society that has evolved, in respect of larger travel-to-work areas, and extend the opportunities that exist for regulation and control to be taken over that. That means broadening out the base.
To some extent, bus services are a Cinderella service. They are often maligned, but they are a good service for those who use them. At low cost, they are capable of delivering a great deal. I believe that trams will be appropriate at some stage, but I am aware that for the current cost to the city of Edinburgh of tramlines 1 and 2, we could renovate the entire Lothians bus fleet and, I am told, run the buses free for the next seven years.
We must question whether, on a utilitarian basis, the bus service is best value and whether it runs when it is wanted, which is not only at peak times, and at an appropriate fare level. We must make progress on matters such as park and ride and, most certainly, integrated ticketing. There is a role for Government in that.
An integrated structure will have to be created. I have a friend who works in Denmark but lives with his partner in Malmö in Sweden. He commutes daily from Malmö to Copenhagen, a journey that involves two countries and two currencies but one ticket. We travel between the cities of Edinburgh and Glasgow in one country with one currency, but we need two tickets. We must bang heads together. We are a small country and we should be capable of delivering an integrated service. I accept that a multitude of factors, such as local authorities, transport authorities, the private sector and the public sector, must be taken into account, but ultimately it is the role of Government and this Parliament to deliver on such matters. People want buses that arrive on time and are easy to use, as well as new fleets, and if the ticketing system is complicated they will not use the bus.
We have come a long way, but much must be reviewed. I appreciate that we have made progress, but we will have to return to many matters when the new regional transport partnerships are in place, because the ground will change significantly.
It is appropriate that we are reviewing the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001. Such review is part and parcel of the legislative process and the purpose of the Scottish Parliament. We are a unicameral Parliament, so we have to make legislation without having the opportunity to review matters. Some time after legislation has been introduced, therefore, it is appropriate that we should pause and reflect on whether what we sought to achieve has been achieved; whether the act is working well; whether things can be improved; and what amendments we need to make. When we do that, it is appropriate that we look at issues in Scotland in terms of the glass being half full rather than half empty. It is clear that some aspects have not worked out as well as we would have liked, but significant process has been made in other areas.
A difficulty for the committee is that there may have to be a further review because, to some extent, the ground is shifting under our feet. The decision, which I and the SNP support, to introduce regional transport partnerships is long overdue. We can use that method to provide in other areas of Scotland what currently exists in the west of Scotland. The representation from that area here today makes it clear that we must not throw the baby out with the bathwater in respect of what has served the west of Scotland well through the SPT.
Regional partnerships represent progress, in that one of the difficulties for buses is that they transcend local authority borders. Local authorities face significant difficulty in many regards. We must consider the society that has evolved, in respect of larger travel-to-work areas, and extend the opportunities that exist for regulation and control to be taken over that. That means broadening out the base.
To some extent, bus services are a Cinderella service. They are often maligned, but they are a good service for those who use them. At low cost, they are capable of delivering a great deal. I believe that trams will be appropriate at some stage, but I am aware that for the current cost to the city of Edinburgh of tramlines 1 and 2, we could renovate the entire Lothians bus fleet and, I am told, run the buses free for the next seven years.
We must question whether, on a utilitarian basis, the bus service is best value and whether it runs when it is wanted, which is not only at peak times, and at an appropriate fare level. We must make progress on matters such as park and ride and, most certainly, integrated ticketing. There is a role for Government in that.
An integrated structure will have to be created. I have a friend who works in Denmark but lives with his partner in Malmö in Sweden. He commutes daily from Malmö to Copenhagen, a journey that involves two countries and two currencies but one ticket. We travel between the cities of Edinburgh and Glasgow in one country with one currency, but we need two tickets. We must bang heads together. We are a small country and we should be capable of delivering an integrated service. I accept that a multitude of factors, such as local authorities, transport authorities, the private sector and the public sector, must be taken into account, but ultimately it is the role of Government and this Parliament to deliver on such matters. People want buses that arrive on time and are easy to use, as well as new fleets, and if the ticketing system is complicated they will not use the bus.
We have come a long way, but much must be reviewed. I appreciate that we have made progress, but we will have to return to many matters when the new regional transport partnerships are in place, because the ground will change significantly.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-2854, in the name of Bristow Muldoon, on behalf of the Local Government and Transport Committee, on its i...
Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab):
Lab
In deciding on the Local Government and Transport Committee's work programme, members believed that it would be useful to undertake post-legislative scrutiny...
Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):
Lab
I want to pick up on that point. I have travelled around the country and it strikes me that much of the soft passenger information is much better and that, a...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
I agree entirely. Ensuring that bus passengers and people who are not currently bus users have access to accurate information about timetables and real-time ...
That the Parliament notes the recommendations contained in the Local Government and Transport Committee’s 4th Report 2005 (Session 2):
Inquiry into issues arising from the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001 (SP Paper 316).
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
I was not a member of the Local Government and Transport Committee when it began its deliberations; I came in at the end. I convey the apologies of Bruce Cra...
Brian Adam (Aberdeen North) (SNP):
SNP
They are on the bus.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Brian Adam reliably informs me that they are on the bus.It is clear that quality contracts and quality partnerships are a solution that, when examined closel...
David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
This is the last time that I will speak in this Parliament, at least for a while, and I am very pleased to speak in this particular debate. For me, there is ...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way?
David Mundell:
Con
I will indeed.
Des McNulty:
Lab
Given that so many of his colleagues are in the chamber to hear him, I am sure that David Mundell's maiden speech as the shadow Scottish secretary cannot be ...
David Mundell:
Con
My committee colleague Paul Martin pointed out this afternoon that Mr Michael Martin and I are single-party House of Commons representatives from Scotland. T...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):
Lab
I put on record my appreciation for the convener of the Local Government and Transport Committee, Bristow Muldoon, for his indulgence during the inquiry. Non...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
We move to the open debate. I want to call as many back benchers as I can, so I ask for four-minute speeches.
Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I tender my apologies for the discourtesy of not being in the chamber for the opening speeches. Regrettably, and as is often the case, my media interview did...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate, which is important, not least because it is David Mundell's last debate in this Parliament. He has cherry p...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
Sometimes we in the chamber congratulate ourselves on passing legislation, and we are right to do so. However, occasionally we should take a look at what has...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con):
Con
I am well aware that the fact that I was not a member of the Local Government and Transport Committee that compiled the report puts me at something of a disa...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
Will the member give way?
John Scott:
Con
I will do so in a moment.The Parliament should also note the National Federation of Bus Users written submission, which states:"the interest of bus users has...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
If the policies that have been pursued by the Executive and by the Labour Government since 1997 have been so wrong, why has bus patronage been rising consist...
John Scott:
Con
The change is due to the voluntary arrangements that have been put in place. It is certainly nothing to do with the quality partnerships or quality contracts...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Much of what I will say concerns those areas of Scotland in which support from local authorities and from the new regional transport partnerships will be nec...
Chris Ballance (South of Scotland) (Green):
Green
We hear a lot in the chamber about rail, but it is bus travel that is most important to Scots on a daily basis. Dumfries and Galloway and the Borders—an area...
Mr John Home Robertson (East Lothian) (Lab):
Lab
I am grateful to members of the Local Government and Transport Committee for their work on the report. I am even more grateful to Sarah Boyack, who was the m...
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD):
LD
I am still slightly confused about where those 158 stations in the Highlands are. Perhaps I will have a look at my map later and find them. I am pleased that...
Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):
Lab
As Des McNulty said, the importance of the report is that it attempts to monitor the implementation of previous legislation. When the other Deputy Presiding ...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
I agree with other members of the committee who worked on the report that the clerks, parliamentary staff and those who gave evidence contributed in importan...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
Will the member give way?