Chamber
Plenary, 01 Jun 2005
01 Jun 2005 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Transport (Scotland) Act 2001
I put on record my appreciation for the convener of the Local Government and Transport Committee, Bristow Muldoon, for his indulgence during the inquiry. None of us should make any apologies for the issues that we raised in the inquiry, because the effectiveness of our bus network throughout Scotland affects many people, particularly the disadvantaged groups who depend on an effective bus network.
Many people in my constituency and throughout Scotland need a decent bus network to get them to hospitals, health centres and leisure facilities, and even to get them to work in the early hours of the morning. I do not see any evidence that, under the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001, our bus companies are motivated by the need to deliver for the social needs of our communities. They are motivated only by the need to ensure that they make a nice tidy profit from every route that they deliver. Social conscience may have nothing to do with the concerns that have been raised, but the specific issue that I want to raise is the cherry-picking process that the bus companies involve themselves in.
I ask the Minister for Transport not simply to take my word for that. I quote from the minutes of a north Glasgow FirstGroup transport liaison group meeting, at which David Robertson, the network manager of FirstGroup, said:
"Unfortunately bus operators cannot afford to be suppliers of Social Services",
as previously delivered by the SPT. The minister said in response to our inquiry that the bus companies should not always look at the bottom line, but should deliver social services throughout Scotland. I agree with that, but unfortunately that is not what is being played out in our communities. I find the cherry picking that goes on throughout the bus industry unacceptable, and the quality partnership and quality contract process, which was well meant in 2001, is not playing out effectively. There will have to be a process to ensure that we can regulate to deliver the social needs of our communities.
In relation to concessionary fares, we have seen significant investment by the Executive of £156 million; I know that all members welcome that. However, the evidence that we received during our inquiry showed that there is no purpose to that scheme unless people can access the bus services in the first place. Once again, I must mention the need to ensure that the elderly and, in particular, the disabled can access those services. We are advised that many of the buses that are being developed will not be ready to comply with the amended regulations under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 for another 20 years. We should introduce legislation timeously to ensure that everyone can get access to bus services.
I have spoken a number of times in the chamber about the need to ensure that we deliver to many of the facilities that require bus services for people who have no alternative but to access the bus network. I welcome the minister's response on that point during stage 2 of the Transport (Scotland) Bill, when we ensured that the new regional transport partnerships will take health facilities into consideration. I believe that the minister will, at some point, have to address the need to regulate to ensure that bus companies take those issues into account.
I want to address the constant need for companies to consider a subsidy before they will deliver a service. David Robertson, whom I quoted earlier, also said to the north Glasgow liaison group, "Why don't you make representations to your MSP to see how that subsidy can deal with delivering some of those social services?" FirstGroup asks us to provide funding from the public purse to deliver social services when its turnover, according to a recent announcement, has increased by 8 per cent from £2.29 billion to £2.47 billion. It is time for such companies to move away from the cherry picking of routes and to ensure that they deliver a cross-section of services to the people who need them in the most disadvantaged areas. They should have the reality check and accept that, in business, it is necessary to take the good with the bad. Many other public limited companies in various industries have to do that; it is time that the bus companies woke up to that and ensured that they deliver services to the most disadvantaged groups throughout Scotland.
Many people in my constituency and throughout Scotland need a decent bus network to get them to hospitals, health centres and leisure facilities, and even to get them to work in the early hours of the morning. I do not see any evidence that, under the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001, our bus companies are motivated by the need to deliver for the social needs of our communities. They are motivated only by the need to ensure that they make a nice tidy profit from every route that they deliver. Social conscience may have nothing to do with the concerns that have been raised, but the specific issue that I want to raise is the cherry-picking process that the bus companies involve themselves in.
I ask the Minister for Transport not simply to take my word for that. I quote from the minutes of a north Glasgow FirstGroup transport liaison group meeting, at which David Robertson, the network manager of FirstGroup, said:
"Unfortunately bus operators cannot afford to be suppliers of Social Services",
as previously delivered by the SPT. The minister said in response to our inquiry that the bus companies should not always look at the bottom line, but should deliver social services throughout Scotland. I agree with that, but unfortunately that is not what is being played out in our communities. I find the cherry picking that goes on throughout the bus industry unacceptable, and the quality partnership and quality contract process, which was well meant in 2001, is not playing out effectively. There will have to be a process to ensure that we can regulate to deliver the social needs of our communities.
In relation to concessionary fares, we have seen significant investment by the Executive of £156 million; I know that all members welcome that. However, the evidence that we received during our inquiry showed that there is no purpose to that scheme unless people can access the bus services in the first place. Once again, I must mention the need to ensure that the elderly and, in particular, the disabled can access those services. We are advised that many of the buses that are being developed will not be ready to comply with the amended regulations under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 for another 20 years. We should introduce legislation timeously to ensure that everyone can get access to bus services.
I have spoken a number of times in the chamber about the need to ensure that we deliver to many of the facilities that require bus services for people who have no alternative but to access the bus network. I welcome the minister's response on that point during stage 2 of the Transport (Scotland) Bill, when we ensured that the new regional transport partnerships will take health facilities into consideration. I believe that the minister will, at some point, have to address the need to regulate to ensure that bus companies take those issues into account.
I want to address the constant need for companies to consider a subsidy before they will deliver a service. David Robertson, whom I quoted earlier, also said to the north Glasgow liaison group, "Why don't you make representations to your MSP to see how that subsidy can deal with delivering some of those social services?" FirstGroup asks us to provide funding from the public purse to deliver social services when its turnover, according to a recent announcement, has increased by 8 per cent from £2.29 billion to £2.47 billion. It is time for such companies to move away from the cherry picking of routes and to ensure that they deliver a cross-section of services to the people who need them in the most disadvantaged areas. They should have the reality check and accept that, in business, it is necessary to take the good with the bad. Many other public limited companies in various industries have to do that; it is time that the bus companies woke up to that and ensured that they deliver services to the most disadvantaged groups throughout Scotland.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-2854, in the name of Bristow Muldoon, on behalf of the Local Government and Transport Committee, on its i...
Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab):
Lab
In deciding on the Local Government and Transport Committee's work programme, members believed that it would be useful to undertake post-legislative scrutiny...
Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):
Lab
I want to pick up on that point. I have travelled around the country and it strikes me that much of the soft passenger information is much better and that, a...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
I agree entirely. Ensuring that bus passengers and people who are not currently bus users have access to accurate information about timetables and real-time ...
That the Parliament notes the recommendations contained in the Local Government and Transport Committee’s 4th Report 2005 (Session 2):
Inquiry into issues arising from the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001 (SP Paper 316).
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
I was not a member of the Local Government and Transport Committee when it began its deliberations; I came in at the end. I convey the apologies of Bruce Cra...
Brian Adam (Aberdeen North) (SNP):
SNP
They are on the bus.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Brian Adam reliably informs me that they are on the bus.It is clear that quality contracts and quality partnerships are a solution that, when examined closel...
David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
This is the last time that I will speak in this Parliament, at least for a while, and I am very pleased to speak in this particular debate. For me, there is ...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way?
David Mundell:
Con
I will indeed.
Des McNulty:
Lab
Given that so many of his colleagues are in the chamber to hear him, I am sure that David Mundell's maiden speech as the shadow Scottish secretary cannot be ...
David Mundell:
Con
My committee colleague Paul Martin pointed out this afternoon that Mr Michael Martin and I are single-party House of Commons representatives from Scotland. T...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):
Lab
I put on record my appreciation for the convener of the Local Government and Transport Committee, Bristow Muldoon, for his indulgence during the inquiry. Non...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
We move to the open debate. I want to call as many back benchers as I can, so I ask for four-minute speeches.
Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I tender my apologies for the discourtesy of not being in the chamber for the opening speeches. Regrettably, and as is often the case, my media interview did...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate, which is important, not least because it is David Mundell's last debate in this Parliament. He has cherry p...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
Sometimes we in the chamber congratulate ourselves on passing legislation, and we are right to do so. However, occasionally we should take a look at what has...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con):
Con
I am well aware that the fact that I was not a member of the Local Government and Transport Committee that compiled the report puts me at something of a disa...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
Will the member give way?
John Scott:
Con
I will do so in a moment.The Parliament should also note the National Federation of Bus Users written submission, which states:"the interest of bus users has...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
If the policies that have been pursued by the Executive and by the Labour Government since 1997 have been so wrong, why has bus patronage been rising consist...
John Scott:
Con
The change is due to the voluntary arrangements that have been put in place. It is certainly nothing to do with the quality partnerships or quality contracts...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Much of what I will say concerns those areas of Scotland in which support from local authorities and from the new regional transport partnerships will be nec...
Chris Ballance (South of Scotland) (Green):
Green
We hear a lot in the chamber about rail, but it is bus travel that is most important to Scots on a daily basis. Dumfries and Galloway and the Borders—an area...
Mr John Home Robertson (East Lothian) (Lab):
Lab
I am grateful to members of the Local Government and Transport Committee for their work on the report. I am even more grateful to Sarah Boyack, who was the m...
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD):
LD
I am still slightly confused about where those 158 stations in the Highlands are. Perhaps I will have a look at my map later and find them. I am pleased that...
Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):
Lab
As Des McNulty said, the importance of the report is that it attempts to monitor the implementation of previous legislation. When the other Deputy Presiding ...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
I agree with other members of the committee who worked on the report that the clerks, parliamentary staff and those who gave evidence contributed in importan...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
Will the member give way?