Chamber
Plenary, 01 Jun 2005
01 Jun 2005 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Transport (Scotland) Act 2001
Brian Adam reliably informs me that they are on the bus.
It is clear that quality contracts and quality partnerships are a solution that, when examined closely, has been found wanting. In its evidence to the committee, the National Federation of Bus Users estimated that a pilot scheme in West Lothian might cost £1.5 million. The SPT estimated that the cost would be £1 million. Plainly, it would be folly to enter into such models at such cost if the money could be better used to increase the frequency and improve the quality of the service to the passengers and the public.
The SNP recognises that it is necessary to tackle congestion where it occurs. Bristow Muldoon was quite right to say that the committee—for the reasons that he gave—did not study or take evidence on congestion charging. I hope that that opportunity will come. With reference to the Edinburgh scheme, the SNP believes that although local authorities should at that time have had the authority to consider such schemes, that particular scheme was wrong.
What alternatives have been presented? The debate has not moved forward significantly since the Edinburgh referendum debacle. The SNP recognises that park-and-ride schemes have played a role. As we heard from Stagecoach, the Ferrytoll initiative has been a massive success. As the local member for Inverness, I believe what the director of Stagecoach, Robert Andrew, said in his evidence: such a facility, coupled with other anti-congestion measures, would be a great advantage and would keep cars out of the city centre.
The SNP and an SNP Government would ensure that public sector workers had the opportunity to avoid driving to work in the rush hour. The merit of that proposal, which I have mentioned in the chamber before—I look forward to the current minister or his successor developing it—is that the costs would be minimal. I commend that proposal to the chamber.
In rural Scotland and in most parts of my constituency, other solutions are required. Brian Souter recognised that the best solutions to the problems will come not from big central locations, but from community-led partnerships such as we see in Badenoch and Strathspey. He proposed in his evidence the excellent idea of taxi buses that could be operated like post buses and extended to take in other services in local areas. Those are the types of solution that are being developed, that will be developed and which we can all support.
I turn to the national concessionary scheme. The SNP supports in principle a scheme that will benefit our senior citizens and those with a disability. [Interruption.] We will continue to do so, whatever alarms are going off around us—and I am not referring to the sound of Kenny MacAskill's lectern falling. When the minister announced to the Parliament on 22 December that there would be a national concessionary scheme, he won support for it in principle. However, it has emerged subsequently that the details of the scheme appear not to have been thought through. Several months after the announcement, in a letter that I have obtained from the project manager, she asks local authorities whether she can have details of the 16 local schemes that operated before. Should not that have been done before the minister announced the national scheme?
In a report by the MVA Consultancy Group Ltd, which reported in draft in April, the consultants raised the pertinent question about the cost of the scheme. The minister has not given the total costs; he has given maximum costs. However, the consultants say that it is not clear whether any financial modelling has been done. Surely that modelling should have been done before the minister made the announcement to Parliament.
It is not clear how the smart card system will operate. There will not be a machine for every bus, as was the intention; the system will be operated manually. The scope for fraud is thus greater, as the MVA report recognised, and there are many other potential problems. The purpose of the SNP as the Opposition is to probe such deficiencies, but there is not enough time today for me to go over the vast deficiencies that exist in the proposed scheme. I hope that the minister will come back to Parliament before the recess, as he promised to do, to let us know what is happening to implement a scheme that the SNP, of course, warmly welcomes.
It is clear that quality contracts and quality partnerships are a solution that, when examined closely, has been found wanting. In its evidence to the committee, the National Federation of Bus Users estimated that a pilot scheme in West Lothian might cost £1.5 million. The SPT estimated that the cost would be £1 million. Plainly, it would be folly to enter into such models at such cost if the money could be better used to increase the frequency and improve the quality of the service to the passengers and the public.
The SNP recognises that it is necessary to tackle congestion where it occurs. Bristow Muldoon was quite right to say that the committee—for the reasons that he gave—did not study or take evidence on congestion charging. I hope that that opportunity will come. With reference to the Edinburgh scheme, the SNP believes that although local authorities should at that time have had the authority to consider such schemes, that particular scheme was wrong.
What alternatives have been presented? The debate has not moved forward significantly since the Edinburgh referendum debacle. The SNP recognises that park-and-ride schemes have played a role. As we heard from Stagecoach, the Ferrytoll initiative has been a massive success. As the local member for Inverness, I believe what the director of Stagecoach, Robert Andrew, said in his evidence: such a facility, coupled with other anti-congestion measures, would be a great advantage and would keep cars out of the city centre.
The SNP and an SNP Government would ensure that public sector workers had the opportunity to avoid driving to work in the rush hour. The merit of that proposal, which I have mentioned in the chamber before—I look forward to the current minister or his successor developing it—is that the costs would be minimal. I commend that proposal to the chamber.
In rural Scotland and in most parts of my constituency, other solutions are required. Brian Souter recognised that the best solutions to the problems will come not from big central locations, but from community-led partnerships such as we see in Badenoch and Strathspey. He proposed in his evidence the excellent idea of taxi buses that could be operated like post buses and extended to take in other services in local areas. Those are the types of solution that are being developed, that will be developed and which we can all support.
I turn to the national concessionary scheme. The SNP supports in principle a scheme that will benefit our senior citizens and those with a disability. [Interruption.] We will continue to do so, whatever alarms are going off around us—and I am not referring to the sound of Kenny MacAskill's lectern falling. When the minister announced to the Parliament on 22 December that there would be a national concessionary scheme, he won support for it in principle. However, it has emerged subsequently that the details of the scheme appear not to have been thought through. Several months after the announcement, in a letter that I have obtained from the project manager, she asks local authorities whether she can have details of the 16 local schemes that operated before. Should not that have been done before the minister announced the national scheme?
In a report by the MVA Consultancy Group Ltd, which reported in draft in April, the consultants raised the pertinent question about the cost of the scheme. The minister has not given the total costs; he has given maximum costs. However, the consultants say that it is not clear whether any financial modelling has been done. Surely that modelling should have been done before the minister made the announcement to Parliament.
It is not clear how the smart card system will operate. There will not be a machine for every bus, as was the intention; the system will be operated manually. The scope for fraud is thus greater, as the MVA report recognised, and there are many other potential problems. The purpose of the SNP as the Opposition is to probe such deficiencies, but there is not enough time today for me to go over the vast deficiencies that exist in the proposed scheme. I hope that the minister will come back to Parliament before the recess, as he promised to do, to let us know what is happening to implement a scheme that the SNP, of course, warmly welcomes.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-2854, in the name of Bristow Muldoon, on behalf of the Local Government and Transport Committee, on its i...
Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab):
Lab
In deciding on the Local Government and Transport Committee's work programme, members believed that it would be useful to undertake post-legislative scrutiny...
Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):
Lab
I want to pick up on that point. I have travelled around the country and it strikes me that much of the soft passenger information is much better and that, a...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
I agree entirely. Ensuring that bus passengers and people who are not currently bus users have access to accurate information about timetables and real-time ...
That the Parliament notes the recommendations contained in the Local Government and Transport Committee’s 4th Report 2005 (Session 2):
Inquiry into issues arising from the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001 (SP Paper 316).
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
I was not a member of the Local Government and Transport Committee when it began its deliberations; I came in at the end. I convey the apologies of Bruce Cra...
Brian Adam (Aberdeen North) (SNP):
SNP
They are on the bus.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Brian Adam reliably informs me that they are on the bus.It is clear that quality contracts and quality partnerships are a solution that, when examined closel...
David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
This is the last time that I will speak in this Parliament, at least for a while, and I am very pleased to speak in this particular debate. For me, there is ...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way?
David Mundell:
Con
I will indeed.
Des McNulty:
Lab
Given that so many of his colleagues are in the chamber to hear him, I am sure that David Mundell's maiden speech as the shadow Scottish secretary cannot be ...
David Mundell:
Con
My committee colleague Paul Martin pointed out this afternoon that Mr Michael Martin and I are single-party House of Commons representatives from Scotland. T...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):
Lab
I put on record my appreciation for the convener of the Local Government and Transport Committee, Bristow Muldoon, for his indulgence during the inquiry. Non...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
We move to the open debate. I want to call as many back benchers as I can, so I ask for four-minute speeches.
Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I tender my apologies for the discourtesy of not being in the chamber for the opening speeches. Regrettably, and as is often the case, my media interview did...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate, which is important, not least because it is David Mundell's last debate in this Parliament. He has cherry p...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
Sometimes we in the chamber congratulate ourselves on passing legislation, and we are right to do so. However, occasionally we should take a look at what has...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con):
Con
I am well aware that the fact that I was not a member of the Local Government and Transport Committee that compiled the report puts me at something of a disa...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
Will the member give way?
John Scott:
Con
I will do so in a moment.The Parliament should also note the National Federation of Bus Users written submission, which states:"the interest of bus users has...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
If the policies that have been pursued by the Executive and by the Labour Government since 1997 have been so wrong, why has bus patronage been rising consist...
John Scott:
Con
The change is due to the voluntary arrangements that have been put in place. It is certainly nothing to do with the quality partnerships or quality contracts...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Much of what I will say concerns those areas of Scotland in which support from local authorities and from the new regional transport partnerships will be nec...
Chris Ballance (South of Scotland) (Green):
Green
We hear a lot in the chamber about rail, but it is bus travel that is most important to Scots on a daily basis. Dumfries and Galloway and the Borders—an area...
Mr John Home Robertson (East Lothian) (Lab):
Lab
I am grateful to members of the Local Government and Transport Committee for their work on the report. I am even more grateful to Sarah Boyack, who was the m...
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD):
LD
I am still slightly confused about where those 158 stations in the Highlands are. Perhaps I will have a look at my map later and find them. I am pleased that...
Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):
Lab
As Des McNulty said, the importance of the report is that it attempts to monitor the implementation of previous legislation. When the other Deputy Presiding ...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
I agree with other members of the committee who worked on the report that the clerks, parliamentary staff and those who gave evidence contributed in importan...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
Will the member give way?