Chamber
Plenary, 26 May 2005
26 May 2005 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
National Health Service<br />(Age Discrimination)
I apologise for missing the first part of the debate. The pressure on members in trying to get agreement on amendments to legislation is unrelenting. There are timetables and we just have to go along with them. However, the speeches that I heard made a good contribution to the debate.
The particular cases in Lothian are being investigated. Obviously, they are unfortunate, but any large system fails, just as we all fail at times. The cases are not typical, but a wider issue is involved, which concerns not just the health service: attitudes, which other members have mentioned. In many quarters, a patronising and dismissive attitude is still taken towards older people. There is also a feeling that older people do not count as much as other people do. Like all other prejudice, whether on the ground of gender, race, religion or whatever, we must combat that attitude. Older people need to be accepted as people with a full contribution to make and as people who need full attention, just like anyone else. All of us must fight to improve people's attitudes in that regard.
Keeping older people out of hospital has also been mentioned and is a goal towards which all of us should aim. The partnership Executive has achieved a certain amount: we have introduced free personal care and put more effort into care at home. However, much more thought and effort must go in to support that. As other members said, we need the necessary technical support and qualified nurses, home helps or whoever to help older people to continue to live in their own home and live a decent sort of life. That is essential. In addition, residential care that is outwith hospital has to be adequately paid for. That issue has never been fully grasped.
We should pay more attention to ensuring that older people have more activities to take part in that keep them busy, entertained and active. It is often quite hard for older people to take part in activities, perhaps because they are widowed or live alone. I am sure that at election time we have all experienced calling on somebody who clearly has not spoken to anyone for a long time. We perform a good social deed by having a long chat with such people.
We can make more use of older people with young people; they often have a good rapport. I had a relation who at the age of 80 spent many hours listening to primary pupils doing their reading and telling them stories. As well as having youth cafes we can have older people's cafes. Many churches have them, but we could encourage them by supporting places where people can have a good, cheap meal and social contact. If we develop more social contact and activities for older people, and mix them with people of other generations, we will give them a much happier life and will save ourselves a lot of money in the health service and other services. We will do everyone a great favour if we mobilise communities to support their older people better. I hope that we can attend to that in many different ways through local authorities, voluntary organisations and other bodies, and give older people—
The particular cases in Lothian are being investigated. Obviously, they are unfortunate, but any large system fails, just as we all fail at times. The cases are not typical, but a wider issue is involved, which concerns not just the health service: attitudes, which other members have mentioned. In many quarters, a patronising and dismissive attitude is still taken towards older people. There is also a feeling that older people do not count as much as other people do. Like all other prejudice, whether on the ground of gender, race, religion or whatever, we must combat that attitude. Older people need to be accepted as people with a full contribution to make and as people who need full attention, just like anyone else. All of us must fight to improve people's attitudes in that regard.
Keeping older people out of hospital has also been mentioned and is a goal towards which all of us should aim. The partnership Executive has achieved a certain amount: we have introduced free personal care and put more effort into care at home. However, much more thought and effort must go in to support that. As other members said, we need the necessary technical support and qualified nurses, home helps or whoever to help older people to continue to live in their own home and live a decent sort of life. That is essential. In addition, residential care that is outwith hospital has to be adequately paid for. That issue has never been fully grasped.
We should pay more attention to ensuring that older people have more activities to take part in that keep them busy, entertained and active. It is often quite hard for older people to take part in activities, perhaps because they are widowed or live alone. I am sure that at election time we have all experienced calling on somebody who clearly has not spoken to anyone for a long time. We perform a good social deed by having a long chat with such people.
We can make more use of older people with young people; they often have a good rapport. I had a relation who at the age of 80 spent many hours listening to primary pupils doing their reading and telling them stories. As well as having youth cafes we can have older people's cafes. Many churches have them, but we could encourage them by supporting places where people can have a good, cheap meal and social contact. If we develop more social contact and activities for older people, and mix them with people of other generations, we will give them a much happier life and will save ourselves a lot of money in the health service and other services. We will do everyone a great favour if we mobilise communities to support their older people better. I hope that we can attend to that in many different ways through local authorities, voluntary organisations and other bodies, and give older people—
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh):
Con
We move, rather behind the clock, to the next item of business, which is a debate on motion S2M-2861, in the name of Shona Robison, on age discrimination in ...
Shona Robison (Dundee East) (SNP):
SNP
I thank the many families throughout Scotland that have written to me about the experience of their elderly relatives. It is because of their concerns that t...
The Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care (Rhona Brankin):
Lab
I welcome today's debate on the standards of care for older people in the NHS. We have published standards that are both high and equitable and we all expect...
Shona Robison:
SNP
I accept, as I am sure the minister does, that there are lots of documents that say what should be done. However, does she agree that the problem is that wha...
Rhona Brankin:
Lab
Clearly, there is no point in having standards if we do not ensure that those standards are met. That is the challenge that we face. NHS QIS was established ...
Mrs Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
Today's debate comes at an appropriate time in the wake of yesterday's publication of the Kerr report, which indicates a way forward for the NHS for the next...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
Coming a day after the publication of Professor David Kerr's report, this debate is opportune. After all, Professor Kerr's very first proposal is for"All NHS...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
We now come to the open debate. Time is very tight indeed and I ask members to make speeches of strictly four minutes.
Mr Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
It is a sad day when, despite the hard work of many decent and caring staff in the service, we have to debate the indignity and lack of care that some older ...
Carolyn Leckie (Central Scotland) (SSP):
SSP
It is absolutely right that we should have a debate about age discrimination in the NHS. It is well known that the NHS is plagued with inequalities and has b...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
The provision of a high standard of health care is important to everyone in Scotland but particularly to our older people. The starting point for this debate...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Richard Baker:
Lab
I am sorry, but I have only four minutes.Older people are the most frequent users of NHS services. Day in and day out, hundreds of thousands of older people ...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP):
SSCUP
I welcome the debate on Shona Robison's motion. Sadly, it reflects the lack of basic respect for the elderly that exists in our society and which manifests i...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
When we see discrimination against older citizens in the NHS, we often see a reflection of broader, societal discrimination against older people. I make no p...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):
Lab
In 25 years' time, there will be more people of retirement age in Scotland than there will be children. The biggest growth will be in the number of people wh...
Eleanor Scott (Highlands and Islands) (Green):
Green
Two separate and yet connected issues have been referred to in the debate: age discrimination and neglect of the elderly. As various members have pointed out...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
We move to winding-up speeches. I call Donald Gorrie and advise him that he has a tight four minutes.
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
I apologise for missing the first part of the debate. The pressure on members in trying to get agreement on amendments to legislation is unrelenting. There a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
You must finish now, Mr Gorrie.
Donald Gorrie:
LD
That would help to reduce the problem and change people's attitude. They would see how much older people can contribute.
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
It is sad indeed that we are discussing problems relating to the elderly, given the number of debates that we have held in the Parliament and the amount of l...
Rhona Brankin:
Lab
We have all listened carefully to the debate. The issue is emotive and hugely important and, as I said in my opening speech, there is absolutely no room for ...
Mary Scanlon:
Con
Will the minister give way?
Rhona Brankin:
Lab
I am sorry, but I do not have time.Let me respond to some specific points that were raised in the debate. Shona Robison referred to "Frontline Scotland" and ...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
First, I make it clear that Ms Robison has given her excuses to the Presiding Officer for not being here for the conclusion of the debate.I preface my main r...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
Surely not.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
They are as quirky as Andy Kerr and they are as different as Stewart Stevenson. By the way, he has now delivered his 200th speech. I do not know whether to w...