Chamber
Plenary, 12 May 2005
12 May 2005 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Schools-Colleges Review
As we seem to be continuing the election campaign that I thought had finished last week, I play my part by saying that other parties might have had the proposals in their manifestos, but local government in Scotland, which is largely Labour led, has been implementing them since the 1980s, when it was not politically expedient or particularly fashionable to do so. I was involved in that.
I welcome the strategy. I share the concern that Tricia Marwick expressed in her point of order that back benchers have been unable to get the briefing that was provided to Opposition spokespersons or to see the strategy. That has made it somewhat difficult to prepare a speech in advance, but I will do my best.
The strategy is consistent with what the Government in Scotland has been doing to bring coherence to lifelong learning, almost from cradle to grave. Although I could never compete with the Parliament's epitome of the benefits of lifelong learning—Stewart Stevenson—I have had a fairly varied working life. In 1988, as a new lecturer at Fife College in Kirkcaldy, where my boss was my colleague Marilyn Livingstone, I recall having a three-hour class on a Friday afternoon of what was known as schools link. The pupils were either disaffected, disruptive or otherwise disinterested—or, rather, uninterested. They did not want to be in school, and they did not particularly want to be in college, but that was marginally better than being in school. The amount of benefit that they got was questionable.
I confirm and support the comments of many members that we are not talking about some sort of dumping ground for disruptive or disaffected pupils. What we are talking about looks to provide the element of choice that pupils and young people need and will help them to make that choice rather than force choice upon them. That is an important distinction, and it is borne out by some of the evidence from Glasgow, where it was found that following their college experience during their secondary school years pupils were clearer about the choices that they wanted to make, and those choices were not always in the areas that they had studied when they were in college. If that alone is what comes out of the review, it will be of great benefit.
I welcome the strategy. I share the concern that Tricia Marwick expressed in her point of order that back benchers have been unable to get the briefing that was provided to Opposition spokespersons or to see the strategy. That has made it somewhat difficult to prepare a speech in advance, but I will do my best.
The strategy is consistent with what the Government in Scotland has been doing to bring coherence to lifelong learning, almost from cradle to grave. Although I could never compete with the Parliament's epitome of the benefits of lifelong learning—Stewart Stevenson—I have had a fairly varied working life. In 1988, as a new lecturer at Fife College in Kirkcaldy, where my boss was my colleague Marilyn Livingstone, I recall having a three-hour class on a Friday afternoon of what was known as schools link. The pupils were either disaffected, disruptive or otherwise disinterested—or, rather, uninterested. They did not want to be in school, and they did not particularly want to be in college, but that was marginally better than being in school. The amount of benefit that they got was questionable.
I confirm and support the comments of many members that we are not talking about some sort of dumping ground for disruptive or disaffected pupils. What we are talking about looks to provide the element of choice that pupils and young people need and will help them to make that choice rather than force choice upon them. That is an important distinction, and it is borne out by some of the evidence from Glasgow, where it was found that following their college experience during their secondary school years pupils were clearer about the choices that they wanted to make, and those choices were not always in the areas that they had studied when they were in college. If that alone is what comes out of the review, it will be of great benefit.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business is a debate on motion S2M-2793, in the name of Peter Peacock, on the schools-colleges review.
Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. The document to inform the debate has not yet been delivered to members. I understand that there is a hold-up at the ...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
The supply of documentation is not a matter for me; it is a matter for the Executive. However, what has happened is unfortunate.
The Minister for Education and Young People (Peter Peacock):
Lab
Shall I begin my speech, Presiding Officer, or do you want me to deal with the point of order separately?
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I think that you should deal with the point that has been raised, as it is clearly germane to the debate.
Peter Peacock:
Lab
I fully acknowledge the point that has been raised. The documents were due to be in the Scottish Parliament information centre by 9 o'clock for members gener...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
Further to that point of order, Presiding Officer. Mr Peacock and Mr Wallace are due to launch the document this morning at Telford College. It is questionab...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
The Parliament has agreed that the debate should proceed and that is what should happen. The Minister for Parliamentary Business made efforts to get the docu...
The Minister for Education and Young People (Peter Peacock):
Lab
It is my pleasure to open this debate on school-college partnership. We know that many pupils already benefit from the learning opportunities that colleges b...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome much of what the minister has said. He has spoken of the role of other institutions. Are there any plans to examine the links between schools and h...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
The specific focus of this work is school-college links, but other work is on-going between higher education institutions and schools and we want to encourag...
Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):
Lab
I am sure that the minister will agree that the role of careers services is vital to the whole process that he is describing. How will that role be promoted ...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
Sylvia Jackson raises an important point. I am not going to refer to the matter specifically today, but I know that people want to develop more appropriate r...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
I am interested in what the minister is saying, but, if there is to be an impact on the world of work as well as on pupils, will he indicate the quantity of ...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
I will say something about that later. We will be piloting a lot of the work so that it can be fully tested before it is rolled out across the system. As I w...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
Before I come to the substance of my speech, I must reflect on the circumstances of the debate. It is not acceptable for members of the Parliament not to hav...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
There may have been some misunderstanding. I am deeply flattered that Fiona Hyslop wants me to remain in the chamber all morning, but that is what I intend t...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
I am pleased to hear of the minister's change to his previously advertised plan.A great deal of consensus exists in the Parliament on the subject of today's ...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):
Con
I am grateful to have the opportunity to open the debate on behalf of the Conservatives. The Scottish Executive's initiative to develop effective partnership...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD):
LD
I give a warm welcome to the publication of the documents on school-college partnerships. The Executive has implemented yet another key Liberal Democrat mani...
Christine May (Central Fife) (Lab):
Lab
As we seem to be continuing the election campaign that I thought had finished last week, I play my part by saying that other parties might have had the propo...
Robert Brown:
LD
Is Christine May aware of the Careers Scotland research that identified the close link between people having a goal in life and attainment? Does she think th...
Christine May:
Lab
Yes, I do. I was privileged to have a lengthy discussion with the consultants who prepared the report for Careers Scotland on the benefit to young people of ...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Tricia Marwick has withdrawn.
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
We all share the objectives that are set out in today's documents. We all agree that in principle we support the expansion of the role of further education c...
Christine May:
Lab
Perhaps Mr Ewing will explain to me how additional funding for activities that are carried out at present but not funded will, as he suggests, cause problems...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
We do not know what the impact will be because the documents do not say that. We know that the sum will be £41 million but, as Fiona Hyslop said, we have no ...
Chris Ballance (South of Scotland) (Green):
Green
The Executive review, "Building the Foundations of a Lifelong Learning Society", is a most welcome document. Set beside the merger of the tertiary education ...
Dr Jackson:
Lab
I want to know whether I understand correctly what the member said a few sentences back. He seemed to say that he envisaged S4 pupils going fully into furthe...
Chris Ballance:
Green
The important point is that there is provision for pupils in S4 who want to have alternatives to school education, as well as school education. They should b...