Chamber
Plenary, 06 Feb 2003
06 Feb 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Vaccines (Thimerosal)
I thank Nicola Sturgeon for securing the debate and Fraser Nelson of The Scotsman for his thorough investigation of the issue, which has raised awareness and has led to many parliamentary questions and perhaps even to this debate.
As I follow Lloyd Quinan in the debate, I must say that, having been the Health and Community Care Committee's reporter on MMR, I was frightened when I read some of the detailed research on the vaccines containing thimerosal. The comparisons with MMR were not very welcome.
I am joined by my colleague Jamie McGrigor, an expectant father whose child will be born any day now. He sits here looking for advice on vaccinations.
I fully support an immunisation policy that treats parents and patients with respect by giving them the fullest information and choice possible for each vaccine. Thimerosal has been used in vaccines since the 1930s. What major studies have been carried out to demonstrate proper safety limits for exposure to ethyl mercury in small infants, who have received 75 micrograms of ethyl mercury by the 16th week of their lives? As thimerosal was taken out of all child vaccines in the United States and Australia in 1999, its use in the United Kingdom is shocking. We need answers on why it remains in UK vaccines.
Since the topic was first raised, I have asked several questions and have been told in ministerial responses that no research links thimerosal to Alzheimer's, that the regulation and control of vaccines is a reserved matter and that thimerosal is being removed from vaccines as a precautionary measure. Against what is that a precaution? I was told that many vaccines contain thimerosal, that four out of seven flu vaccines contain thimerosal and that the Department of Health states that flu vaccines should not be given during pregnancy, although, in the same reply, I was told that the vaccine does not affect the foetus. If it does not affect the developing foetus, what does it affect?
A reply from the Minister for Health and Community Care said:
"It is anticipated that thiomersal-free vaccines will be considered for provision in the routine childhood immunisation programme after they have been licensed for use in the UK and have demonstrated that they are as effective in protecting children against the real risk presented by vaccine-preventable diseases".—[Official Report, Written Answers, 24 January 2003; p 2844.]
In another answer, the minister said:
"manufacturers are required to ensure that the replacement or elimination of thimerosal does not affect the safety or efficacy of the final product."—[Official Report, Written Answers, 13 November 2002; p 2231.]
That answer also said, "This may take time". That reply was received in November last year, yet I understand that, as Nicola Sturgeon has said, the current DTP vaccine stocks in Scotland include the mercury-free vaccine. In fact, I believe that, out of 110,000 units of the vaccine, 30,000 are a mercury-free vaccine called Infanrix—I hope that I have pronounced that correctly.
Surely that vaccine would not be in stock if it was not fully tested for safety and effectiveness, so why can parents not be given the choice of mercury-free vaccines when they clearly exist? I further understand that one in four Scottish doctors is choosing mercury-free vaccines, so why not give everyone the choice? Parents need information. They need to know what to ask before making that choice. Reports also state that the mercury-free vaccine is 10 times less likely to have side effects, and children are vaccinated at two, three and four months. Surely parents have a right to all that information.
Parents should also be told the efficacy ratio of the mercury and mercury-free DTP vaccines. The current information needs to be updated because, as other members have said, we are almost the last developed country in the world with mercury in the DTP vaccine. Or is it the case that the whole vaccine policy is based on cost? The current mercury vaccine made in France costs £10.17. The mercury-free vaccine made in the UK costs £19. In a devolved health care system in Scotland, surely we can at least tell parents the efficacy ratio of vaccines, which vaccines may trigger side effects, which vaccines contain mercury and what choice is available for mercury-free vaccines. I ask the minister to agree to give patients the information that they need to make an informed choice on the basis of efficacy and potential side effects.
As I follow Lloyd Quinan in the debate, I must say that, having been the Health and Community Care Committee's reporter on MMR, I was frightened when I read some of the detailed research on the vaccines containing thimerosal. The comparisons with MMR were not very welcome.
I am joined by my colleague Jamie McGrigor, an expectant father whose child will be born any day now. He sits here looking for advice on vaccinations.
I fully support an immunisation policy that treats parents and patients with respect by giving them the fullest information and choice possible for each vaccine. Thimerosal has been used in vaccines since the 1930s. What major studies have been carried out to demonstrate proper safety limits for exposure to ethyl mercury in small infants, who have received 75 micrograms of ethyl mercury by the 16th week of their lives? As thimerosal was taken out of all child vaccines in the United States and Australia in 1999, its use in the United Kingdom is shocking. We need answers on why it remains in UK vaccines.
Since the topic was first raised, I have asked several questions and have been told in ministerial responses that no research links thimerosal to Alzheimer's, that the regulation and control of vaccines is a reserved matter and that thimerosal is being removed from vaccines as a precautionary measure. Against what is that a precaution? I was told that many vaccines contain thimerosal, that four out of seven flu vaccines contain thimerosal and that the Department of Health states that flu vaccines should not be given during pregnancy, although, in the same reply, I was told that the vaccine does not affect the foetus. If it does not affect the developing foetus, what does it affect?
A reply from the Minister for Health and Community Care said:
"It is anticipated that thiomersal-free vaccines will be considered for provision in the routine childhood immunisation programme after they have been licensed for use in the UK and have demonstrated that they are as effective in protecting children against the real risk presented by vaccine-preventable diseases".—[Official Report, Written Answers, 24 January 2003; p 2844.]
In another answer, the minister said:
"manufacturers are required to ensure that the replacement or elimination of thimerosal does not affect the safety or efficacy of the final product."—[Official Report, Written Answers, 13 November 2002; p 2231.]
That answer also said, "This may take time". That reply was received in November last year, yet I understand that, as Nicola Sturgeon has said, the current DTP vaccine stocks in Scotland include the mercury-free vaccine. In fact, I believe that, out of 110,000 units of the vaccine, 30,000 are a mercury-free vaccine called Infanrix—I hope that I have pronounced that correctly.
Surely that vaccine would not be in stock if it was not fully tested for safety and effectiveness, so why can parents not be given the choice of mercury-free vaccines when they clearly exist? I further understand that one in four Scottish doctors is choosing mercury-free vaccines, so why not give everyone the choice? Parents need information. They need to know what to ask before making that choice. Reports also state that the mercury-free vaccine is 10 times less likely to have side effects, and children are vaccinated at two, three and four months. Surely parents have a right to all that information.
Parents should also be told the efficacy ratio of the mercury and mercury-free DTP vaccines. The current information needs to be updated because, as other members have said, we are almost the last developed country in the world with mercury in the DTP vaccine. Or is it the case that the whole vaccine policy is based on cost? The current mercury vaccine made in France costs £10.17. The mercury-free vaccine made in the UK costs £19. In a devolved health care system in Scotland, surely we can at least tell parents the efficacy ratio of vaccines, which vaccines may trigger side effects, which vaccines contain mercury and what choice is available for mercury-free vaccines. I ask the minister to agree to give patients the information that they need to make an informed choice on the basis of efficacy and potential side effects.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr Murray Tosh):
Con
The final item of business is a members' business debate on motion S1M-3765, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on the removal from vaccines of thimerosal—no do...
Motion debated,
That the Parliament notes with concern that thirteen vaccines currently available in the United Kingdom, including four that are administered to children, co...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
There are indeed two pronunciations of the word, Presiding Officer. I will stick to "thimerosal", with the stress on the second syllable.I am grateful for th...
Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I associate myself with Nicola Sturgeon's remarks and support entirely what she has said. The accumulation of mercury and heavy metals in our children—both f...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I thank Nicola Sturgeon for securing the debate and Fraser Nelson of The Scotsman for his thorough investigation of the issue, which has raised awareness and...
Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I congratulate Nicola Sturgeon on securing this debate, which is important for many of us with young children, and also for those who, like Jamie McGrigor, h...
The Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care (Mr Frank McAveety):
Lab
On pronunciation, I shall take a different view just for the sheer devilment of it. I say thiomersal, and other members say thimerosal.In this evening's deba...
Mary Scanlon:
Con
Can the minister confirm whether a mercury-free vaccine is available in Scotland? I previously mentioned Infanrix, which is produced by GlaxoSmithKline.
Mr McAveety:
Lab
I reassure the member that Infanrix was already licensed for use at two, three and four months when the JCVI issued its advice in 2000. It was licensed in 19...
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
This is an important question. Does the minister believe that GPs should pro-actively advise parents when they take their children for vaccination that a mer...
Mr McAveety:
Lab
We ask GPs and health professionals to identify the best course of action in discussion with patients and their families. It is not right and proper for me, ...
Mary Scanlon:
Con
I want to be absolutely clear on this point. In terms of efficacy, is Infanrix an equal substitute to the vaccine that contains mercury? Is it available to a...
Mr McAveety:
Lab
Infanrix has fewer side effects than DTwP. However, data on severity indicates that DTwP protects against whooping cough—that benefit outweighs the risk. The...
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
The minister has slightly misrepresented some of the coverage. No one is suggesting that Infanrix has been held back solely on the ground of cost. More paren...
Mary Scanlon:
Con
In a written answer dated 24 January, which I quoted earlier, Malcolm Chisholm stated:"It is anticipated that thiomersal-free vaccines will be considered for...
Mr McAveety:
Lab
I do not think that I contradicted the Minister for Health and Community Care—perhaps the Official Report will prove me right. I said that we need to have in...
Meeting closed at 17:41.