Chamber
Plenary, 27 Mar 2002
27 Mar 2002 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
MSP Numbers
I rise to support Patricia Ferguson's motion, because it is important for the Parliament and for the people of Scotland.
On David McLetchie's speech, it is with some disappointment and sadness that I say that never has so much rubbish been delivered in such a short space of time to this Parliament. I am disappointed with the Conservatives because, since 1997—and since 1999—they have failed to decide whether they will support this institution or carp from the sidelines. My advice is that the Conservatives should get honest with the Scottish people. They are in this Parliament because they were elected to do a job. They should not go scurrying around, belittling, criticising and carping about the Parliament, as they often do on the flimsiest of reasons.
Today's debate is more important than having a cockshy at the Conservatives. I do not believe that there is a case for changing the number of MSPs. I remember the days at Westminster, when I had to horse-trade with English Conservatives because there were no Scottish Conservative MPs. Thankfully, because of proportional representation, the Scottish Conservatives now have the chance to grace the democratic stage and once again represent people in this country.
There should be unity on the issue. The Parliament is not yet three years old. Although there is an automaticity in the way the Scotland Act 1998 links reductions in the number of MPs at Westminster to reductions in the number of members of this Parliament, there is no intellectual or political logic to that.
On David McLetchie's speech, it is with some disappointment and sadness that I say that never has so much rubbish been delivered in such a short space of time to this Parliament. I am disappointed with the Conservatives because, since 1997—and since 1999—they have failed to decide whether they will support this institution or carp from the sidelines. My advice is that the Conservatives should get honest with the Scottish people. They are in this Parliament because they were elected to do a job. They should not go scurrying around, belittling, criticising and carping about the Parliament, as they often do on the flimsiest of reasons.
Today's debate is more important than having a cockshy at the Conservatives. I do not believe that there is a case for changing the number of MSPs. I remember the days at Westminster, when I had to horse-trade with English Conservatives because there were no Scottish Conservative MPs. Thankfully, because of proportional representation, the Scottish Conservatives now have the chance to grace the democratic stage and once again represent people in this country.
There should be unity on the issue. The Parliament is not yet three years old. Although there is an automaticity in the way the Scotland Act 1998 links reductions in the number of MPs at Westminster to reductions in the number of members of this Parliament, there is no intellectual or political logic to that.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-2940, in the name of Patricia Ferguson, on the size of the Scottish Parliament, and an amendment to the m...
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Patricia Ferguson):
Lab
The arrangements for elections to the Scottish Parliament, including the size of the Parliament, are a reserved matter. The effect of those arrangements as t...
Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I support everything that the minister has said. The reduction in the number of committee members has, on some occasions, made committees totter on the edge ...
Patricia Ferguson:
Lab
I thank the member for that. If the committee structure were to be jeopardised in such a way, there would be serious implications for the Executive's legisla...
Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West):
*
If we want Scottish parliamentary constituencies to be coterminous with the Westminster constituencies while retaining a proportionality and the Parliament's...
Patricia Ferguson:
Lab
I am sure that Mr Canavan will make those points in his submission to the consultation.It would, of course, be possible for any problems that may arise—the k...
David McLetchie (Lothians) (Con):
Con
Conservative members are proud to stand alone today against the self-serving consensus of Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the SNP that seeks to preserve th...
Rhona Brankin (Midlothian) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way?
David McLetchie:
Con
I will not.We want a leaner, more focused Parliament that concentrates not on the politically correct nonsense that has been our diet on far too many of the ...
Rhona Brankin:
Lab
Does Mr McLetchie agree that the number of MSPs that the Conservatives wanted was a big zero?
David McLetchie:
Con
I do. However, the fact that we have 19 Conservative MSPs is one of the few redeeming features of the Parliament.
Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):
Green
Will the member give way?
David McLetchie:
Con
I will not.We do not need 129 members. That is borne out not only by my experience, but by the experience of a former distinguished member of the Parliament,...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I do not know whether David McLetchie understands the principles of the Parliament. We have the Executive, the Parliament and the people and there is meant t...
David McLetchie:
Con
We have certainly long argued for an alternative programme for the Parliament to the one proposed by the Executive. I agree with Fiona Hyslop on that point.W...
Brian Fitzpatrick (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab) rose—
Lab
David McLetchie:
Con
Mr Fitzpatrick should listen to this. The Labour members' colleague Mr Martin O'Neill, the Westminster member for Ochil, said on 3 March:"We should look at t...
Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP) rose—
SNP
David McLetchie:
Con
I will not take an intervention. By reducing the number of ministers and streamlining the committees from 17 to 13, in line with proposals previously made in...
Patricia Ferguson rose—
Lab
David McLetchie:
Con
I will not take an intervention; I have given way enough already and answered plenty of questions. It might be of interest to members of other parties to not...
Robin Harper:
Green
Will the member give way?
David McLetchie:
Con
No, thank you. I ask members to listen to the arithmetic. Under our proposals, that would increase to roughly 30,000 people per parliamentary politician. How...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
It is quite clear that the lean and mean Tories have never left Scotland. Members: "Hear, hear." The SNP has not lodged an amendment to the motion—a rare but...
David McLetchie:
Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
I will give way in a second.The people will not thank the Conservatives for interfering with the Parliament that they voted for in 1999 after reading the lea...
David McLetchie:
Con
Is it the policy of the Scottish National Party substantially to reduce the number of ministers in the Scottish Executive?
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
There is a strong case for a review of the operation of the Scottish Executive. All questions of ministerial responsibilities would be up for consideration i...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD):
LD
The issue that we are discussing should not be an issue. As even Mr McLetchie must recognise, there is a certain paradox in the fact that the leader of a par...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
We have time for three speeches of four minutes or possibly four speeches of three minutes.