Chamber
Plenary, 25 Nov 1999
25 Nov 1999 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Carers Strategy
I will not give way.
The £5 million is a relaunch of money that has already been allocated. Welcome though that
money is, let us not go down the track of suggesting that it is either new or extra money.
I would like the minister to address three general financial points. The first concerns the Government's long-term commitment to the strategy, as everyone appreciates that the more money that we can put behind support for carers the better. Robert Brown mentioned the Government's pledge of a long-term commitment. I wish that that there was one. The Government's document says:
"If, to ensure real improvements, it is necessary to increase that sum, we will consider doing so".
There is no long-term pledge, merely a pledge to consider the matter. Instead of the three-year pledge in England, this is a one-year pledge only. I want to know what the Minister for Health and Community Care means by long term and what categorical assurances she can give us today.
I also want to ask her about monitoring the strategy. The document says:
"Community care plans will be submitted to the Scottish Executive for scrutiny. From now on we will require them to be accompanied by a letter from local carers' groups confirming that they have been consulted in the planning and development of new services and that they are satisfied that each authority's share of the £10 million has been used appropriately."
What will happen if that money is not used appropriately and if the local carers groups feel that the local authority has not acted in their best interest and not met the requirements? Will that mean a reduction in amount of money for that local authority and, if so, will that not risk reducing the amount of money going to the people who need it? I look forward to a clear enunciation of the policy on long-term monitoring.
On the division of funds, Mr Gray highlighted three priorities for the Government: learning disabilities, ethnic minorities and rural costs. He rightly said that in rural communities—which Mr Aitken also spoke about—there is an additional burden. Is that to say that the funding disbursed from the two lots of £5 million will follow those priorities? Will that mean that local authorities that have a greater emphasis on one of them—the Highlands and Islands, for example—will receive greater resources than local authorities elsewhere in Scotland? If not—which would mean an additional burden on those local authorities without adequate resources to implement the plans—why not?
I hope that we will have support from our Liberal Democrat colleagues, as I am in the perhaps unique position of supporting an SNP amendment without having heard one argument against more money going to local authorities. Mr Brown made the case clearly for more money. Kay Ullrich told us that £2.4 billion less will have been spent in the first three years of this Administration than in the last three years of the Tory Government. That is the context of any announcement today or yesterday, in the press or in Parliament. It equates to a 12 per cent real-terms cut. If the 19p a week—which is, of course, welcome—is the summit of the minister's ambition, that is not good enough. We need proper investment in local authorities, proper back-up for the priorities that have rightly been identified and a step further than has been made today. On a report card, the Executive's efforts might merit a C plus—pass marks, but must do better.
In supporting the amendment, I emphasise that the priorities identified are wise but that the resources must be made available to allow local authorities and national Government to achieve those objectives.
The £5 million is a relaunch of money that has already been allocated. Welcome though that
money is, let us not go down the track of suggesting that it is either new or extra money.
I would like the minister to address three general financial points. The first concerns the Government's long-term commitment to the strategy, as everyone appreciates that the more money that we can put behind support for carers the better. Robert Brown mentioned the Government's pledge of a long-term commitment. I wish that that there was one. The Government's document says:
"If, to ensure real improvements, it is necessary to increase that sum, we will consider doing so".
There is no long-term pledge, merely a pledge to consider the matter. Instead of the three-year pledge in England, this is a one-year pledge only. I want to know what the Minister for Health and Community Care means by long term and what categorical assurances she can give us today.
I also want to ask her about monitoring the strategy. The document says:
"Community care plans will be submitted to the Scottish Executive for scrutiny. From now on we will require them to be accompanied by a letter from local carers' groups confirming that they have been consulted in the planning and development of new services and that they are satisfied that each authority's share of the £10 million has been used appropriately."
What will happen if that money is not used appropriately and if the local carers groups feel that the local authority has not acted in their best interest and not met the requirements? Will that mean a reduction in amount of money for that local authority and, if so, will that not risk reducing the amount of money going to the people who need it? I look forward to a clear enunciation of the policy on long-term monitoring.
On the division of funds, Mr Gray highlighted three priorities for the Government: learning disabilities, ethnic minorities and rural costs. He rightly said that in rural communities—which Mr Aitken also spoke about—there is an additional burden. Is that to say that the funding disbursed from the two lots of £5 million will follow those priorities? Will that mean that local authorities that have a greater emphasis on one of them—the Highlands and Islands, for example—will receive greater resources than local authorities elsewhere in Scotland? If not—which would mean an additional burden on those local authorities without adequate resources to implement the plans—why not?
I hope that we will have support from our Liberal Democrat colleagues, as I am in the perhaps unique position of supporting an SNP amendment without having heard one argument against more money going to local authorities. Mr Brown made the case clearly for more money. Kay Ullrich told us that £2.4 billion less will have been spent in the first three years of this Administration than in the last three years of the Tory Government. That is the context of any announcement today or yesterday, in the press or in Parliament. It equates to a 12 per cent real-terms cut. If the 19p a week—which is, of course, welcome—is the summit of the minister's ambition, that is not good enough. We need proper investment in local authorities, proper back-up for the priorities that have rightly been identified and a step further than has been made today. On a report card, the Executive's efforts might merit a C plus—pass marks, but must do better.
In supporting the amendment, I emphasise that the priorities identified are wise but that the resources must be made available to allow local authorities and national Government to achieve those objectives.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-317, in the name of Iain Gray, on the Executive's commitment to the introduction of a carers strategy, an...
The Deputy Minister for Community Care (Iain Gray):
Lab
I welcome to the public gallery carers who have travelled from all over Scotland to be here today. Given the caring responsibilities that they have, that rep...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I can now give an interim answer to the point of order that was raised by Kay Ullrich. I understand that the parliamentary question was asked by Lewis Macdon...
Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
welcome the sentiments that the minister has expressed. I am sure that carers across Scotland will join me in regarding this as a first step in the long-over...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
We welcome today's motion. I congratulate the minister and Kay Ullrich on their contributions to an evocative and important matter. The minister is also to b...
Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Mr Aitken says that the matter is not a question of finance and goes on to highlight the shortcomings in local government and the need to plough more money i...
Bill Aitken:
Con
Of course it is a question of finance, but it is also a question of enabling the people who might be on the periphery of making a contribution to do so. I do...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD):
LD
On behalf of the Liberal Democrats, I join in the plaudits to the deputy minister, who has produced a good paper and brought it before the chamber in an unde...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
A number of members want to speak in this afternoon's debate. I ask members to keep their speeches as close as possible to four minutes.
Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome today's debate. It is essential that our discussion of this issue is informed and constructive. We must move the carers agenda forward. The Scottis...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):
Lab
Does the member for Airdrie and Shotts agree that the doubled allocation of resources for the provision of carers services, including respite care, displays ...
Karen Whitefield:
Lab
Yes, I agree.It is especially important that priority has been given to young carers. It is estimated that there are around 5,000 young carers in Scotland, a...
Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I, too, welcome the fact that we have highlighted young carers today and I wish to confine my remarks to that subject. I am glad that young carers are being ...
Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab):
Lab
I must begin by declaring that I still act as a medical adviser to foster carers in the former Central Region, now Falkirk, Stirling and Clackmannanshire. Th...
Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to debate this extremely important issue in Parliament. I will use my time to draw attention to the needs of the valuable people wh...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
There is time for one more speaker. I call Kate MacLean; you have three minutes.
Kate MacLean (Dundee West) (Lab):
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will try to be brief. Iain Gray said that one of the first events he attended as a minister was a carers event. I wonder whet...
Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
On a point of order. Might it be noted when we have important debates such as this in future that ministers should not make statements prior to the debate? P...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Thank you. I understand the point of order.
Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the minister's comprehensive speech and, like all the other members who have spoken today, the strategy for carers. It is good that we have moved t...
Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP):
SSP
On a point of order. It has been the practice for the Presiding Officer to indicate the number of members who wanted to speak in the debate but were unsucces...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I am not aware that that is a practice, Mr Sheridan. For your information, I believe that the number is three.
Tommy Sheridan:
SSP
Thank you.
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
Much of what I wanted to say has been said. I am delighted that there is such consensus on this issue. I would like to think that, whether in a small or in a...
Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the tone and substance of this debate. Members from all parts of the chamber have made good speeches. I am sure that the Minister for Health and Co...
Iain Gray:
Lab
Will Mr Hamilton give way?
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
I will not give way.The £5 million is a relaunch of money that has already been allocated. Welcome though that money is, let us not go down the track of sugg...
The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon):
Lab
Let me say at the outset how genuinely pleased and proud I am to be standing here today shoulder to shoulder with Iain Gray and other members of the Executiv...
Kay Ullrich:
SNP
When the minister met representatives of local authorities, did they assure her that they were receiving adequate funding to provide community care services?
Susan Deacon:
Lab
Perhaps this is the appropriate point at which to address the SNP amendment. Amendments such as the one that has been moved today are dishonest and disingenu...