Committee
Transport and the Environment Committee, 20 Nov 2002
20 Nov 2002 · S1 · Transport and the Environment Committee
Item of business
Water Environment and Water Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I spoke on issues relating to amendment 24 last week, so in recognition that we do not want to spend a lot of time in groundhog day, I will not repeat every point that I made.The objective is to gear the bill more explicitly towards the idea of sustainability, which embraces environmental as well as social and economic factors. The general duties of the bill should reflect those factors and there should be a duty on ministers, SEPA and the relevant responsible authorities to ensure sustainable use and management of the water environment.The text of amendment 24 draws on the wording that is used with respect to Scottish Water under section 51 of the Water Industry (Scotland) Act 2002. It is appropriate that something similar should appear in the Water Environment and Water Services (Scotland) Bill. Last time, the minister made a positive comment about how sustainability could be incorporated and perhaps we could deal with amendment 24 in that context.Amendment 56 is a probing amendment, which is geared towards placing a stronger requirement on agencies and individuals within the Scottish Administration to deliver the goals of the water framework directive. On a practical level, strengthening the provisions of section 2 should lead to better joined-up thinking across Scottish Executive departments and result in better implementation of the legislation. I am pushing the minister to go one step further than the bill does.Amendment 57 highlights the role of wetlands in the water environment. In reply to a question on 25 September, the Minister for Environment and Rural Development assured us:"We recognise that wetlands play a protecting role in the ecology of the water environment and that the conditions of our wetlands in Scotland vary according to the aquatic ecosystems. We are not ignoring wetlands and we do not intend to exclude them from the scope of the bill; I acknowledge that many people have highlighted their importance."—Official Report, Transport and the Environment Committee, 25 September 2002; c 3525.The minister believes that:"The register of protected areas will enable us to include specific areas such as nitrate vulnerable zones or areas designated under the habitats or wild birds directives." —Official Report, Transport and the Environment Committee, 25 September 2002; c 3526 However, some witnesses to the committee argued strongly that the provision in the bill should be strengthened to ensure that wetlands are specifically recognised. Accordingly, natural systems, including wetlands, would be better able to facilitate restoration enhancement of water bodies as set out in the water framework directive. Article 1(a) of the water framework directive recognises wetlands and amendment 57 suggests that that should be clearly incorporated in the bill.The committee's stage 1 report states:"The Committee has taken evidence on - and some of its members have seen for themselves - the importance that natural wetlands systems can have in filtering pollution and controlling flooding. Some witnesses have called for the Bill to explicitly state the importance that should be given to wetlands in meeting these objectives. The Committee agrees with this position".Amendment 57 seeks to put in place an appropriate provision that implements the intent of the water framework directive and is in line with the committee's thinking on the matter.I move amendment 24.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
I welcome back to the committee the Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development, Allan Wilson and several officials from the Scottish Executive.Mem...
Section 1—General purpose of Part 1
The Convener:
Lab
Amendment 108, in the name of Nora Radcliffe, is in a group on its own.
Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD):
LD
In a sense, we are starting where we left off. At the end of our last meeting, I argued the case for the establishment of a benchmark against which the effec...
The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Allan Wilson):
Lab
There is an element of groundhog day to this. I reassure Nora Radcliffe that preventing the deterioration of our water bodies is a key part of the bill, and ...
Nora Radcliffe:
LD
With due respect, I refute some of the minister's arguments. The whole point about the water directive was that it gave member states flexibility. That way o...
Amendment 108, by agreement, withdrawn.
Section 1 agreed to.
Section 2—The general duties
The Convener:
Lab
Amendment 24, in the name of Des McNulty, is grouped with amendments 56, 84, 27, 30 and 57.
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
I spoke on issues relating to amendment 24 last week, so in recognition that we do not want to spend a lot of time in groundhog day, I will not repeat every ...
The Convener:
Lab
Fiona McLeod has not yet arrived, so I invite Bruce Crawford to speak on amendment 84.
Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
Fiona's train has been held up. I shall speak on her behalf.Des McNulty said that amendment 56 was a probing amendment to see whether the minister would be p...
Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
The key words in amendment 27 are "active involvement". I concede that the bill includes a provision on consultation, which will bind SEPA to take account of...
Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):
Green
With amendment 30, I want to strengthen section 2(5) of the bill, which states:"Without prejudice to subsections (1) to (4), the Scottish Ministers and every...
Nora Radcliffe:
LD
I support Des McNulty's amendment 24, because the three-legged stool approach to sustainable development—that there are three elements that should each be gi...
Allan Wilson:
Lab
Many issues have been raised and I will try to work through them in a way that ensures that I take people with me.Amendment 24 asks us to insert a new paragr...
The Convener:
Lab
I thank the minister for his comprehensive response. The group contains a number of amendments. Because of that, I allowed the minister the opportunity of re...
Des McNulty:
Lab
I take on board the commitments that the minister made, in particular his important commitment to promote a stage 3 amendment that would have the effect of i...
Allan Wilson:
Lab
Yes, I would be happy to do that.
Des McNulty:
Lab
On the basis of the minister's commitment, I am content to seek the committee's agreement to withdraw amendment 24.When I spoke to amendment 56, I indicated ...
The Convener:
Lab
Given that Des McNulty has put a question to the minister, I am prepared to allow the minister to respond to that.
Allan Wilson:
Lab
As I indicated earlier, wetlands are included in the designation. Des McNulty asked a specific question about the potential costs of amendment 57. We are con...
Des McNulty:
Lab
I understand from considerations within the European Union that there is likely to be a revision of the water directive, which will explicitly expand the req...
The Convener:
Lab
You can address that point to the minister, but I want to draw this discussion to a close, because we do not want a dialogue between the pair of you to conti...
Allan Wilson:
Lab
Michael Kellet discussed precisely that at a European meeting either last week or two weeks ago. The relationship between the Executive and the EU as far as ...
The Convener:
Lab
I ask Des McNulty to complete his remarks briefly.
Des McNulty:
Lab
I have completed them already.
The Convener:
Lab
I understand that you indicated earlier that you wished to withdraw amendment 24. Is that correct?
Des McNulty:
Lab
Yes.