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Showing 60 of 2,096,445 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,975. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 11 Jun 2026.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
17:18
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
That concludes decision time.17:31The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The final question is, that motion S7M-00346, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on committee membership, be agreed to.Motion agreed to,That the Parliament agrees the membership of committees of the Parliament as follows—Climate Action Committ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, is: For 67, Against 25, Abstentions 26.Motion, as amended, agreed to,That the Parliament welcomes that the...
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am sorry—I could not connect to the voting app. I would have abstained.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The sixth question is, that motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, is: For 36, Against 67, Abstentions 16.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and Wes...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote will be recorded.
Duncan Dunlop (South Scotland) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I apologise—my vote was not recorded. I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The fifth question is, that amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is: For 26, Against 91, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Is...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, is: For 66, Against 27, Abstentions 26.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, is: For 17, Against 92, Abstentions 9.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform)Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform)Langan, Jam...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Malcolm Offord is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Murdo Fraser will fall.The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan M...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, is: For 94, Against 15, Abstentions 9.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Okay, thank you.
Lorna Slater (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Green Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
My apologies, Presiding Officer. That was left over from when the app was not working.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
We come to the vote on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee. Members should cast their vote now.The vote is closed.We have a point of order from Lorna Slater.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.17:18Meeting suspended.17:21On resuming—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The question on the motion will be put at decision time.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I hate to disappoint Ivan McKee, but his speech was not the last speech before the world cup. I will also undoubtedly disappoint other members given that we are looking to get out, but I will not take too long.Members will be aware that standing orders require the Parliamentar...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
Go on—why not?
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Jamie Hepburn) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I will move and speak to the motion, Presiding Officer.
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S7M-00346, on committee membership. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move the motion.17:16
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
That concludes the debate on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does Mr Kerr want to intervene? I will get the time back, so I am happy to take his point. No, he does not. Okay.We have already saved more than £50 million on estates. I thought that it was 12, but we have now, in fact, shut 13 Scottish Government buildings. Murdo Fraser has ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Mr Kerr, you know to try to intervene rather than to attack from a sedentary position.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I think that the confusion is more broad. The Reform manifesto talks about getting rid of all 130 public bodies—or “quangos”, as they call them. However, there is also a recognition from across the Reform benches that those public bodies—whether Police Scotland, the court syst...
Victor Currie (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Reform Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does the cabinet secretary recall that Max Bannerman’s point on community wind farms was that they do not rely on subsidies? Therefore, it forms no contradiction in Reform policy on our opposition to net zero.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Yes. David Barratt also draws out the important point that the inconsistency in the Reform position is quite apparent. Reform members say in their amendment that we should not be talking about this stuff, and then they go on to talk about it from very different and contradicto...
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
—renewable energy schemes and for community-owned wind. Does the cabinet secretary agree that that is not the kind of reform that we need?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Hello. It is not a speech within a speech. It is an intervention.
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In moving the Reform amendment, Malcolm Offord stated that the Scottish Government should have no remit on net zero and energy, and he suggested cutting public bodies that are responsible for related areas. In contrast, Max Bannerman noted the value of community wind power in ...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I will take David Barratt’s intervention, and then I will go on to talk about those other contributions.
David Barratt (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In principle, we need stability of funding and to recognise the great work that happens in community organisations, which I see every week in my constituency. That work is absolutely critical, because those organisations are, to a large extent, the front line, and their abilit...
Bob Doris SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I commend the comments on the third sector that we have heard in the chamber this afternoon. I draw the cabinet secretary’s attention to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee’s report on funding of the third and voluntary sectors, and I highlight the longer-term fun...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
On reflection, I am happy with the extent of the contributions that we have heard this afternoon. As I indicated at the outset, I was keen to hear from members, and that is what has happened for the most part. I will try to pick my way through the mind map that I have in front...
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Before I call the cabinet secretary, I say to members that, if they seek to make an intervention, they should remember to stand up and ask to make an intervention. I notice that buttons are pressed but, sometimes, the speakers do not see who is trying to intervene.17:05
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
We move to the open debate.15:58
Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I congratulate Ivan McKee—I will call him super Ivan, given the scale of his task, based on his speech and the vision that he has set out today.From listening to colleagues from across the chamber, I am struck that there is a lot of common ground here, and I think that we need...
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I begin by welcoming the cabinet secretary to his new role and wishing him well. As we have already heard, Mr McKee has been handed what might become the defining task of this Government, which is tackling the £5 billion black hole in Scotland’s finances. As Murdo Fraser has j...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I call Murdo Fraser, who joins us online.15:47
Michael Marra Lab Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I point gently to the fact that Alyn Smith’s party had an outright majority in the Parliament for one of those parliamentary sessions, so not having had the numbers is not a foolproof excuse.Alyn Smith will find common ground across different areas. My note of caution to him w...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I should explain that I am having to contribute remotely today due to a family issue; otherwise, I would be in the chamber.I welcome Ivan McKee to his new role as Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform. I know that he is keen to dispel the notion that he is here as an axe...
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Committee

Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, 13 May 2009

13 May 2009 · S3 · Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee
Item of business
Energy Inquiry
Mather, Jim SNP Argyll and Bute Watch on SPTV
I introduce David Rennie, Colin Imrie and Sue Kearns. Jamie Hume will undoubtedly be here—I suspect that the vagaries of ScotRail have snarled him up.I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the committee's energy inquiry. As members will have discovered, this is a complex area. I am grateful for the debate and data that the committee has generated to date. I apologise for the length of my statement, but it is vital to have it on the record. As members know, the issue is heavily nuanced and involves a great deal of detail.I have read much of the evidence that has been presented to the committee and am aware that it has had a lively and well-informed discussion on Scotland's energy future. I hope that, at the very least, the committee and the Government agree on the importance of the subject to Scotland's future, to our energy-led economic recovery and to our world-leading low-carbon ambitions on climate change.Energy is vital to keeping Scotland's businesses, hospitals and schools running and, in the case of businesses, competitive; to heating our homes; and to transporting goods and people. The energy sector is vital to Scotland's economy not only in terms of jobs, current production, security of supply and consumption but in providing Scotland with opportunities to develop and deliver the energy technology and systems that will help to meet worldwide climate change and energy security challenges. We do not underestimate the scale of the opportunities that exist, which are enormous.As the committee knows, Scotland has remarkable renewable energy resources—up to 25 per cent of European offshore wind and tidal resources and 10 per cent of European wave resources. Overall, Scotland has the potential to deliver up to 60GW of renewable electricity resources. As members know, Scotland is already a net exporter of electricity, and it has the potential to become a major exporter of renewable electricity to the rest of the United Kingdom and further afield. That is not to mention the fact that we are exporting oil and gas. Our remarkable renewable resource can be harnessed, along with associated technology and research and development gains, to stimulate both economic growth and recovery.In addition, with some 5.5GW of renewable capacity currently installed, consented to or under construction, Scotland is already well placed to exceed the 2011 target for 31 per cent of gross consumption to come from renewable resources. As the First Minister was pleased to announce at the beginning of May, Scotland is well placed to lead the UK and Europe on the development of carbon capture and storage, with the northern North Sea as Europe's largest potential carbon store. The list that I have given is not exhaustive, but it is vital that industry, Parliament and Government work together to seize the opportunities and to address some of the significant challenges, so that we realise the shared ambition of a vibrant, diverse and sustainable energy sector that contributes to our objective of achieving sustainable economic growth while meeting renewable energy targets and addressing climate change.We recognise the importance of Scotland working in partnership with our neighbours in the rest of the UK, Ireland and Europe to take the agenda forward. We have much to learn from other countries, but also much to offer in resources, skills, knowledge and technology. We are aware that, for Scotland fully to meet its ambitious low-carbon energy targets, it must play a full and active role in the UK and the European Union. The saltire prize and the new Scottish European green energy centre are examples of our readiness to lead international developments in sustainable energy.Despite the difficult times that are affecting us all, our aim remains unchanged. Energy will play a central role, not only in delivering sustainable economic growth, but in driving our economic recovery.As the committee will be aware, on 2 February the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth outlined 10 pledges on energy policy, to deliver a succinct and clear agenda for the sector. Today, I have published a detailed road-map for delivery, and have set out in detail how we will deliver each of the 10 pledges in a key sector report that has been sent to the committee.The pledges give a clear, targeted and coherent approach to addressing the main energy issues in Scotland, and they give focus to the efforts of Government and its agencies. The pledges are focused on addressing both short-term and longer-term opportunities for Scotland to develop a competitive advantage and thereby contribute to economic recovery and growth and to addressing climate change. Together, the pledges represent a key component of the Scottish Government's economic recovery programme.The key issues that are addressed in the pledges include: implementing action plans on renewable energy, renewable heat and energy efficiency; supporting clean fossil fuel technologies; the development of subsea grids; developing our oil and gas sector; and leading in green energy through the saltire prize and the Scottish European green energy centre. The overall aim is to deliver a low-carbon economy with a high-growth approach, which will have the potential to create thousands of green jobs in Scotland. We are already working to lay the foundations for economic success by investing in Scotland's natural capital and in our world-leading skills base for a greener future—a greener deal for Scotland.I have outlined the opportunities, but I also mentioned significant challenges that we are trying to address. In addition to the 10 pledges, I therefore want to focus today on three key issues: transmission charging; the energy opportunity; and, finally, how we see the delivery of energy efficiency in Scotland.We acknowledge that we face challenges in realising our energy potential. One challenge lies in ensuring that our existing and future transmission grid infrastructure is fit for purpose, with fair charging and balancing systems, and with a regulatory approach that encourages the development of a balanced mix of generation. There will be a significant emphasis on encouraging renewable energy in Scotland, which will be essential if we are to meet Scottish, UK and, indeed, EU renewable energy targets. In our view, the charging systems for electricity generation need to reflect the priorities of today and the future, rather than the priorities of yesterday.I know that the committee shares some of my concerns. The committee will be aware that the current application of locational charging for grid access levies higher charges on the generators that are furthest from the main centres of demand. The committee will agree that that represents an in-built bias in the UK regulatory system against Scotland-based generation. It does not reflect fundamental shifts towards having more generation from renewable sources, setting renewable energy targets, and addressing climate change by means such as carbon capture and storage. Accordingly, we have made the case for an alternative transmission methodology that is based on a flat-rate charge for all generators, irrespective of where they connect. We will continue to press that case, and we invite the committee to support the Government in that regard.The committee is also aware of current proposals to introduce a locational approach to balancing constraints, and specifically to target constraints costs on Scottish grid users. The proposals have been instigated by the Office of Gas and Electricity Markets and they seek a fundamental change in the costs of addressing constraints in the grid system.I have seen the committee's letter to Ofgem of 7 April, setting out members' concerns about the proposals to alter the arrangements for balancing charges. The letter says that Scottish generators should be able to provide balancing services on commercial terms, rather than—as proposed—at an administrative rate. In my letter to the convener of 17 April, I echoed the committee's concerns and set out the Scottish Government's firm belief that Ofgem should work to deliver a regulatory framework that promotes a fair and equitable electricity market, protects the interests of the consumer and encourages, rather than discourages, renewable energy generation in Scotland and the rest of the UK.We are raising our concerns directly with Ofgem, and are inviting it to reconsider its approach. I am also engaging with UK ministers on how the proposed raft of regulatory changes fits with UK Government policies on renewable energy and addressing climate change. My officials are actively working with the energy sector to develop arguments against such changes. They are also working with the sector to develop proposals on how to achieve a regulatory regime that is genuinely fit for purpose, reflects the current and future energy generation mix in Scotland and the rest of the UK, and encourages the delivery of Scotland's energy capacity, instead of having one that jeopardises the delivery of renewable energy and climate change targets, discourages investment in Scotland and adversely impacts on our overarching aim of achieving sustainable economic growth for Scotland. I invite the committee to work with the Government to achieve that aim.Far from there being an energy gap in Scotland, developments in renewables and clean fossil fuel technologies show that there is a substantial energy opportunity. There has been real and sustained progress in the deployment of renewables in Scotland in recent years, with consent given for more than 20 renewable energy projects since May 2007, including Siadar, the first commercial wave power station in the UK. We have a strong pipeline of renewable projects in the planning and consent system. We have every confidence that our interim target of 31 per cent of electricity consumption from renewable sources can be met by 2011, and we are on track to meet the 2020 target of 50 per cent.Fossil fuel technology projects that are in the pipeline will provide back-up to renewable generation and base-load where necessary. We welcome the recent statement by the UK Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change about his plan to incentivise the development of carbon capture and storage. We will work with the UK Government to develop a framework that recognises the potential of developing demonstrators in Scotland as well as elsewhere in the UK. National planning framework 2 identifies sites for clean fossil fuel development, as well as the existing sites. We are consulting on planning guidance for applications to construct thermal power stations, including proposed requirements in relation to carbon emission reductions. We will make clear our final position on that in the next few months.As I have already said, earlier this month the First Minister launched the findings of the first comprehensive study of carbon capture and storage to be undertaken in the UK. That research was supported by the Scottish Government. The report signals a milestone in Scotland's energy policy, and underlines just how vast Scotland's potential in carbon capture is. The next step is to publish a road-map, which will set out the key milestones for the development of carbon capture and storage in Scotland. The road-map is due to be published this summer.We recognise that there are huge opportunities to improve the efficiency of our energy use, and we see that as a key element of our economic recovery plan. We have recently been accused of treating energy efficiency as the Cinderella of the energy debate, but I do not believe that that is the case. The Climate Change (Scotland) Bill will ensure that the energy efficiency action plan will be given the priority that it deserves by this Government and by future Governments in Scotland. We intend to publish the plan by the end of the year, following final consultation in the summer. That does not mean that we are not taking action now. We have a dedicated budget for this year and next of about £18 million for energy efficiency and microgeneration advice and support for the domestic, business and public sectors. That is in addition to the funding that is being provided for the energy assistance package and the new funding that was announced in the budget for the area-based home insulation scheme. In the past year, we have aligned the delivery of those programmes more closely to achieve more cost-effective delivery and to remove any unnecessary overlap or competition between those separate but cross-cutting policy objectives.Much more can be done through schemes such as the carbon emissions reduction target and the community energy-saving programme to help meet our energy, climate change and fuel poverty targets. Earlier this month, I responded on behalf of the Scottish Government to the UK Government's consultation on its heat and energy-saving strategy. In my response, I outlined that, although we are supportive of the strategic approach that the UK Government is proposing, we believe that, as currently designed, the schemes will make the achievement of the objectives and targets challenging in Scotland. We are concerned that the current least-cost approach has failed to take into account the social and environmental factors that make Scotland distinct.We have called on the UK Government to work with us to define a long-term heat and energy-saving strategy. Therefore, we support any move to create a co-ordinating body to take forward CERT beyond 2012, but the UK Government must recognise that we approach the matter differently in Scotland. We have already integrated and streamlined our fuel poverty and energy efficiency programmes and, through our Scottish CERT strategy steering group, we work closely with energy companies to boost CERT activity in Scotland. Therefore, Scotland must have a separate co-ordinating body that undertakes the work. That would guarantee that the funds that we spend on energy efficiency, fuel poverty and microgeneration were integrated with CERT-type activity. We also acknowledge that any increase in the level of such activity would increase energy prices. Governments need to ensure that there is an accompanying strategy to minimise the impact on households that are vulnerable to fuel poverty. We expect close integration of social spend and carbon reduction activity that is undertaken by energy companies or by a co-ordinating body on their behalf to achieve that in future. That would fit with the approach that we have taken in Scotland of integrating our energy efficiency and fuel poverty programmes to maximise the impact of our spend and delivery.The Minister for Housing and Communities shared those views in his response to the UK Government's recent consultation on CERT and CESP. The Scottish Government wants to ensure that Scotland gets its fair share of CERT and CESP activity—fair in relation to not only population but the other challenges that we face. Scotland is different: it has more rural and island communities, which are more costly to reach; it is also colder and has a larger proportion of harder-to-treat properties. For those reasons, energy suppliers are less likely to invest in Scotland and, if they do, a voluntary partnership is unlikely to deliver CERT or CESP in rural and remote communities such as those in the islands and Highlands of Scotland. We have suggested that the simplest way to achieve at least a pro rata level of activity in Scotland would be for the UK Government to ring fence CESP and CERT in Scotland and for legislation to be put in place to ensure that CERT and CESP activity in Scotland is directed by the Scottish Government through a co-ordinating body of its choice. Our forthcoming energy efficiency action plan will outline that approach in more detail.I hope that these introductory remarks are helpful to the committee and I look forward to discussing the various points that committee members wish to raise. The transition to a low-carbon economy will be central to Scotland's future economic prosperity. Indeed, that approach is being supported by the EU, where energy is at the heart of economic recovery proposals. Significant sums of money are potentially available to carbon capture and storage, offshore wind and offshore grid projects in Scotland that are recognised as being of European significance.I hope that my remarks demonstrate Scotland's energy potential and the progress that we have already made in many areas. Although we have powers over many areas that relate to energy, we do not have the responsibilities in some others that we would wish for. In any event, we realise that progress relies on engagement and on working with a range of partners. We must not only be able to work with them on areas of agreement but be prepared to issue challenges and stand up for Scotland's interests where necessary.I hope that that is a useful summary of our approach to energy, and I look forward to discussing the issues in more depth with the committee.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Iain Smith): LD
Welcome to the 15th meeting of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee in 2009. This is the penultimate session in our energy inquiry, and the first of two...
The Minister for Enterprise, Energy and Tourism (Jim Mather): SNP
I introduce David Rennie, Colin Imrie and Sue Kearns. Jamie Hume will undoubtedly be here—I suspect that the vagaries of ScotRail have snarled him up.I welco...
The Convener: LD
Thank you for those opening remarks. On waste, we have the reduce, reuse, recycle hierarchy. What is the energy hierarchy? What are the priorities—in order?
Jim Mather: SNP
In Scotland, we have set out a clear strategy for the future—renewable energy and clean use of fossil fuels—and have in place our 10 pledges. We are involved...
The Convener: LD
On the issue of how you set about delivering on energy, the key sector report, which you circulated to the committee yesterday afternoon, indicates that the ...
Jim Mather: SNP
It is happening this morning.
The Convener: LD
So it has not taken place already.
Jim Mather: SNP
It is a synchronised activity. Were I not here this morning, I would be there.I will read out the entire list of those who are involved, from the First Minis...
The Convener: LD
Thank you for that information. I do not think that you mentioned anybody who is involved in energy efficiency on that list. Is there representation on energ...
Jim Mather: SNP
Jim McDonald, Stephen Boyd, Councillor Alison Hay, Maf Smith and various others are well capable of representing that issue. I honestly believe that the Firs...
The Convener: LD
You have also indicated that there will be three minister-led energy theme groups. There will be one on oil and gas, one on renewables—building on the work o...
Jim Mather: SNP
We will.
The Convener: LD
However, energy efficiency is again missing. Why is there no theme group on that?
Jim Mather: SNP
There is an issue of focus. Energy efficiency will permeate all the groups, which is perfectly right and seemly. I will chair the three groups, and I will en...
Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): Lab
Given what you have said, I find it odd that you have not included in the Scottish energy advisory board anyone from the energy efficiency sector, the house ...
Jim Mather: SNP
That is true, but the board is very much about looking to the future, which we have very clearly mapped out.I take on board your comments and give you an abs...
Lewis Macdonald: Lab
The broader the input from the energy sector, the better. As we have mentioned, there are a couple of fairly glaring omissions from the advisory board. We mi...
Jim Mather: SNP
We will consider your comments.
Lewis Macdonald: Lab
Like you, I am fully in favour of optimising systems. In two of the three areas in which you have ministerial-led theme groups, we already have very effectiv...
Jim Mather: SNP
It will feed into what is going on. Last year, David Rennie and I ran an event in your home town of Aberdeen that included a three-hour session with 40 repre...
Lewis Macdonald: Lab
I hear what you are saying. Having attended PILOT meetings, I understand how the process works. It is a forum in which industry and Government come together ...
Jim Mather: SNP
It will mean that I will attend PILOT meetings even better informed. We have been closely involved with the broad spectrum of the energy industry and with PI...
Lewis Macdonald: Lab
You have described how you see that relationship developing in relation to oil and gas. What is the intention in relation to renewables, for which you have m...
Jim Mather: SNP
They are all part of a whole. I am always a bit nervous of using the word "or"—it is such a small word; I prefer the word "and". Together we can build a situ...
Lewis Macdonald: Lab
But surely the industry needs to know the answer to the "or" question? If the renewables industry wants to know where to take a steer on Government policy, d...
Jim Mather: SNP
The function is really an issue of bandwidth. FREDS focuses exclusively on renewables, so it crunches through a huge amount of data. I would expect FREDS and...
Lewis Macdonald: Lab
So FREDS will report to the energy advisory board.
Jim Mather: SNP
That is overformalising the situation—it is unhelpful to put it in that way.
Lewis Macdonald: Lab
This is clearly new information for the committee, but it is important that we understand what you envisage the relationship between FREDS and the energy adv...
Jim Mather: SNP
The relationship is a component of us all being involved in trying to optimise the energy sector in Scotland. That parity of esteem, that joint-and-several a...