Committee
Public Petitions Committee, 08 Oct 2002
08 Oct 2002 · S1 · Public Petitions Committee
Item of business
Current Petitions
Saltire (PE512)
My business and every other business in colour operate with numbers. The system goes back to its invention by the Chinese. People do not talk greys, blues or whites, but numbers. In the UK, we talk about British standard numbers. There are German RAL colours, which are standard colours. All over the world, people work to standards. Standards exist for clothing—for the wool and the cloth that people wear—for the paint on the walls, for the cars that we drive and for print materials. We need some form of identification to work from.I am holding up the Scottish Parliament logo, which has a colour. I could call that colour one name and I am sure that everyone else would call it something different, but the person who ordered the headed paper for us would have been asked, "How much paper do you want?" and "What colour do you want the logo in?" That person would have quoted a reference number for the colour of the heading.The situation is extraordinarily strange. We in the Parliament are the only people with the authority to put a number on the colour of the Scottish flag. The petitioner is not asking for a decision for down the line, once a flag has weathered, which has been talked about. A pigment can be produced that can be put on a flag or anything and will never weather—it stays the same colour. If someone damaged their 50-year-old car today and wanted it repaired, they would want it and expect it to be repaired in the same colour. That is just how it is. The determining factor is the colour that is produced at the start—not the colour after five or 10 years of weathering—which should be of the same value.The petitioner is looking for the Parliament to take the simple responsibility for designating a colour. Every other country that I know of, including England, designates the colour of its flag.Let us suppose that Jack McConnell decides to go to America sometime next year or the year after, and someone says to him, "Glad to see you're coming, First Minister. We're going to manufacture 1,000 flags to put up on the flagpoles. What colour do you want them?" He might say, "Just make them blue." "What shade of blue?" he might then be asked. "Och, anything you like," he might reply. That would be so ridiculous. We want the answer to be, "Here's the reference number for the colour of those flags." For the Executive to put out such a stupid message to professionals all over the world, that we do not know the colour of our flag and cannot designate a reference, is highly insulting. I hate to have to go on about this—flags do not clothe us, feed us or make us rich. In fact, they do not do anything for us other than identify us. The matter may seem trivial compared with other, weighty subjects, but it is certainly petty and trivial for the Executive to supply a response such as the one that it has issued. The Executive wants its backside kicked, and its response should be sent back. It should give us a reference. It is its responsibility.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
Gil Paterson is present to discuss petition PE512, so we will bring that forward. I am sorry that we are jumping about a bit on the agenda, but a large numbe...
Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
The matter seems a wee bit trivial. I have sat through all the committee's deliberations this morning and the committee has considered some heavy matters, no...
The Convener:
Lab
No advertising is allowed here.
Mr Paterson:
SNP
My business and every other business in colour operate with numbers. The system goes back to its invention by the Chinese. People do not talk greys, blues or...
The Convener:
Lab
Right—that was some passion delivered there. I do not know anything about the designation of numbers to colours. You are calling for the flag colour to be de...
Mr Paterson:
SNP
It is a straightforward technicality. When someone makes an order, they are asked what colour they want and they give a number.
The Convener:
Lab
What I am trying to get at is the fact that it would not be mandatory. The Parliament can designate a certain number of blue—
Mr Paterson:
SNP
Exactly. That is the point.
The Convener:
Lab
But people would be free to use other numbers of blue if they wished.
Mr Paterson:
SNP
You know the story of "Jack and the Beanstalk". We do not want "Jack and the Flagpole", with Jack climbing up to check the colour of all the flags.
The Convener:
Lab
That could not be done.
Mr Paterson:
SNP
Of course not. This is not about regulation, or whether all flags are of the same colour: it is about who is responsible for designating the colour so that w...
Dorothy-Grace Elder:
Ind
It happens that the saltire has been chosen, but why not solve the whole problem by switching to the lion rampant, which is much cheerier?
Mr Paterson:
SNP
We would still need a colour.
Dr Ewing:
SNP
We would still need a yellow—with the Queen's permission.
The Convener:
Lab
I call Phil Gallie.
Dorothy-Grace Elder:
Ind
What has the Queen got to do with it?
Dr Ewing:
SNP
And we would need to consult the Lord Lyon.
Phil Gallie:
Con
I must admit that, until Gil Paterson spoke, I would have been happy to go along with Jim Wallace's comments. I then started to think about colour references...
Dorothy-Grace Elder:
Ind
And Phil Gallie is the expert on blue.
The Convener:
Lab
Let me suggest that, in the light of Gil Paterson's contribution, we write back to the Executive, asking it whether it would be prepared simply to designate ...
Mr Paterson:
SNP
I would be happy to give the Executive 30 years of my experience. It is there to be picked up.
The Convener:
Lab
I hope that you are not looking for contracts.
Mr Paterson:
SNP
No.
The Convener:
Lab
Is that course of action agreed?Members indicated agreement.
The Convener:
Lab
Thank you. Let us get back to the agenda. Interruption. I am sorry, but we will have to jump around again. Another member has joined us—we are very popular t...