Hansard

Thank you for inviting us to the committee this afternoon.We looked at a specific element of the Kerley remit: motivations and triggers that might encourage people to serve in any public service capacity, and specifically as councillors. Our key objective was to get an understanding of what people saw as the advantages, disadvantages and barriers to participation in any form of public service. Again, we looked specifically at the role of the councillor and at what people understood that role to be. We considered people's propensity to take on a public role, and what factors might inhibit them from doing so or attract them into doing so. We also thought that it would be useful to talk to a few ex-councillors who have retired not purely on the grounds of age, to find out what motivated them to stand for election as councillors in the first place and to stand down from that role later.Our work was exploratory by nature. We held a small number of discussion sessions, either face to face or in groups of eight to 10 individuals. We talked to existing councillors, past councillors and members of the general public, as well as to people who were serving in a public capacity, which covered a broad range of people, from members of health boards and school boards to those who helped with local brownie or scout groups. We talked to people across a range of geographical locations in Scotland—city, rural and intermediate. I will begin by covering our key findings sector by sector, then I shall try to pull them all together.Apart from possibly helping out at school jumble sales or getting involved in parent-teacher association meetings, the members of the general public did not really have a role serving in any form of public capacity. In general, there was little knowledge or awareness of what councillors do, and people's perceptions tended to be vague rather than precise. A small number of people felt that they had a clear picture of the role of the councillor; for many of those people, that picture tended to be based on anecdotal evidence or personal experience. For example, somebody with a housing problem might feel that dealing with housing problems was the primary remit of a councillor, without appreciating the broader range of issues that a local councillor could deal with.When people had clear perceptions of the councillor's role, those perceptions tended to be negative rather than positive, and it was seen as an unrewarding role to take on—some people described it as a thankless task. The role was seen as quite time-consuming, and that made many people perceive it as something that would appeal to other types of people rather than to them.Regardless of what people currently do, they seem unable to see themselves taking on the role of councillor. If they are not working but have other family commitments at home, they think that it would be difficult to take on the role of councillor because they do not have the experience of working. Conversely, somebody who is working full time might say that they cannot commit enough time to the role. Everyone tends to think, "That would be right for somebody else, but not for me."Some people see a strong link between political allegiance and standing as a councillor, so people who have little or no interest in local or national politics automatically exclude themselves. Even those who have an interest in politics still tend to think that there could be conflicts between the role of a councillor looking after his or her constituents and party political interests.Those who understand how the system works generally fear standing for election. It is far easier to be voted in by friends on a committee down the road than it is to go out and canvass the local population, to convince people to vote for you and to carry that through if you get in. The electoral process can be daunting for many of those people. Some people might be aware that they could stand as an independent, but they worry about the support and advice that they might get to enable them to do that and to see the process through properly. That sums up the views of the general public. It must be borne in mind that the views and perceptions of this group tend to be based on anecdotal evidence rather than positive knowledge.The next group was individuals who serve in some form of public capacity. Whoever we spoke to, their reasons for taking on any such role came down, primarily, to personal interest in a matter that was of specific interest or relevance to them. When we talked to those people about their propensity to take that interest one step further, they did not see that there was much similarity between what they did and what councillors did. They saw their role as very specific, whereas a councillor could be dealing with a broad range of issues that changed regularly. There was no sense that there would be natural progression from sitting on a school board to considering standing for election to the local council.In the main, those councillors whom we spoke to felt that they had a strong desire to do good for the community, to be involved in the community and to help make life better for other people in the community. A minority felt that the power and status that is associated with being a local councillor is important. Again, for a minority, being a councillor was seen as a career path. Nobody whom we spoke to claimed that they were using the position as a stepping stone to further a political career, but they assumed that other people that they knew of were using the role of councillor as a stepping stone for a political career.For a small number, there was a family tradition of being a councillor. Such a person might feel that their grandfather and father before them have been councillors and that they want to carry on that tradition, which has often been part of their lives since they were young children. They see the need to carry on what has been done before. They have been involved in work such as canvassing in elections in the past.For all the councillors whom we spoke to, money was not a motivating factor. They felt that the remuneration that is available does not counteract the hours, effort and commitment that is put into being a local councillor. That fits in with what we have heard. The significance of party politics tended to vary quite a lot. Some councillors, when push came to shove, would put party politics first and foremost. Others wanted to put the interests of their constituents first. To an extent, that might have reflected the platform on which they stood in the first place. We spoke to one or two people who had been approached by one or two local political parties that were looking for somebody to stand at the next election, and who were prepared to say that they would not accept a party whip on issues on which they totally disagreed with the party. An agreement had been reached between the individual and the local party for which they were standing.All the councillors saw training and support for the role of councillor as essential. The level of support and training seemed to vary, depending on whom we spoke to. Those who were standing on a party political platform tended to get a reasonable level of support through the party that was behind them. Many who were standing on a more independent basis felt that support came from family and friends or other people whom they knew who had previously been councillors. There was no system in place that would give them access to photocopiers and e-mail. Some people had put in second phone lines at home to try to keep some separation between home life and council life, but that was not an automatic part of the system. They felt that consistency in what is—and could be—available would be well received.All the councillors whom we spoke to acknowledged that they had to be able to have flexible work patterns; many of them were self-employed or farmers. They did the sort of job where they could say, "This afternoon, I will be a councillor and I can do my other work at another point this week or over the weekend."For many people, being a councillor brings additional responsibilities alongside that role, as they may end up sitting on school boards or other committees. Some of them might not have taken into account beforehand the fact that, once they have become a councillor, the job can grow. They all acknowledged that, regardless of how many committees they might have been involved in, being a councillor is a time-consuming job that requires a great deal of commitment from the individual. They all acknowledged that there is a need to attract a wider range of individuals; I will return to that point later.The views of the ex-councillors tended to sit with the views of the councillors to whom we spoke. They talked about difficulties with juggling home life, work life and council duties. Some of them thought that the impact on their home life was a high price to pay. Indeed, one or two councillors said that they regretted missing out on parts of their home life. We spoke to only six ex-councillors, so we cannot say that we have talked to a broad range. However, some of them felt that the job has changed quite a lot since the introduction of the new unitary authorities and that there is more limited capacity to influence decision making among committees and so on these days.Some councillors felt that there is a need for new blood in councils. A couple of people said that they would do only two or three terms as a local councillor; for some, that was all that they had ever set themselves. For people who do not have strong political feeling, the political aspect can be a deterrent. Those who felt that there was a lot of conflict, in terms of constituency and party interests, may well say, "I've had enough of this. I want to step back from it."A few points emerged from our research, some of which fit with the recommendations from the working group report. First, a substantial majority will never be interested in standing as a councillor and there is probably little that can be done to persuade them. They may be apathetic; they may be uninterested; there may simply be a lack of personal interest. We think, however, that there is a natural recruitment ground among people who serve in other public capacities, although some of them might not realise their potential and may need to be spurred on by others.Everyone whom we spoke to said that personal approaches would prompt consideration, especially if that approach was made by someone in whom they had a great deal of faith and who they felt would be open and honest with them in explaining the role of a councillor and what the job can entail. We heard from some people, where there is more of a family tradition, that that sort of education at an early age can be useful. Some form of education campaign, not only for children in schools but through newsletters from councillors, television and radio coverage, citizens panels and other participatory initiatives might create much more awareness of the role of the local councillor. A number of people commented on the negative media coverage and public relations that tend to follow local councillors around and the need to change those perceptions and help to create a more positive image of what can be done by a councillor.There is a need to offer flexibility in the hours of council-related work. Many of the people whom we spoke to commented on the fact that meetings tend to be held during the day; for some, that is not convenient. It might be possible to vary the times at which meetings are held, to give people at least some flexibility. Those who were in full-time jobs felt that the role of councillor would not sit neatly side by side with the job that they were already performing. Some people felt that they could not take on any further commitments while they were in full-time work. There is a need to deal with employers at some level. Support mechanisms could be put in place to help councillors to come through the election process, to learn the role of the councillor and to perform the role well afterwards.That pretty well covers the key points from our research. Do committee members have questions that they would like to ask?