Committee
Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999
14 Dec 1999 · S1 · Local Government Committee
Item of business
Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill
So you would agree to disagree.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
Good afternoon, Mr Marks. I am sorry that we called you in early. We had finished our previous business sooner than expected.Frederick Marks is the local gov...
Frederick Marks (Local Government Ombudsman, Scotland):
I do not know the extent of members' knowledge about my function as ombudsman, so it might be helpful to explain that first.The post of local government ombu...
The Convener:
Lab
I open up the meeting for questions.
Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab):
Lab
I will ask two questions that are closely related. On the adjudication of the standards commission, you point out that there is an anomaly in how elected and...
Frederick Marks:
On the first point, I have always strongly taken the view that the investigation part of the exercise should be external to the local authority, and that und...
Bristow Muldoon:
Lab
I will ask a brief supplementary question. In effect, disqualifying and debarring a councillor from office is the same as dismissing someone from a job. In t...
Frederick Marks:
My view is coloured by the fact that I have grave doubts about whether such a penalty would ever be imposed. I find it extraordinarily difficult to contempla...
Mr Gibson:
SNP
You have said that the proposals for appointment of the chief investigating officer and the members of the commission are fundamentally flawed. How should th...
Frederick Marks:
As I said, the proposition to which I object is in the covering note rather than the bill. I would revert to what the provisions of the bill say, which would...
Mr Paterson:
SNP
Mr Marks, can I take you back to the point that Bristow Muldoon raised? Could you let us know what the downside would be of a council's not making the final ...
Frederick Marks:
The downside of that is the downside of anything that a council does in the public arena: its members have to face the electorate. I happen to believe in loc...
Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab):
Lab
What did you make of the cross-cutting between you and the chief investigating officer? You have flagged up in advance that there may be potential conflicts,...
Frederick Marks:
That would be fine if I could think of a resolution to the problem. If each of the two posts has independence to arrive at their own conclusions after they h...
Mr McMahon:
Lab
So you would agree to disagree.
Frederick Marks:
Yes. In the end, that is the only answer in such a situation.
Mr McMahon:
Lab
The matter is not then resolved. Could there be a way of reaching a final decision under such circumstances on who would be right or wrong?
Frederick Marks:
The decision is only the start of what is done about a given matter. If I reached the conclusion that there was no breach of the code and that there was ther...
Donald Gorrie:
LD
I wish to ask you about staff, Mr Marks. You make one or two comments on that at the foot of the second page and at the start of the third page of your submi...
Frederick Marks:
The point that I was making was not so much about the quality of the staff, although that is obviously very important. It was that the staff should be seen t...
Donald Gorrie:
LD
What you have said is helpful. I had not grasped this. You think that the standards commission, as well as the chief investigating officer, needs staff?
Frederick Marks:
Yes.
Donald Gorrie:
LD
The proposal that you have presented seems to be that the staff are seconded civil servants. From what you have said, I take it that you are not enthusiastic...
Frederick Marks:
I think that it is a very unsatisfactory arrangement.
Donald Gorrie:
LD
Good. Thank you.
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab):
Lab
I want to ask about the role of the chief investigating officer. We have accepted that the chief investigating officer may be a woman. That aside, I was inte...
Frederick Marks:
Before I decide whether to conduct an investigation, I must have a specific complaint that someone has—or thinks that they have—suffered an injustice as a re...
Mr Harding:
Con
Councils have the penalty of surcharge for councillors who act illegally. Do you think that the bill should remove that penalty from councils or extend it to...
Frederick Marks:
I claim no specific knowledge of that subject—perhaps that question should be directed to your next witness, who is the secretary of the Accounts Commission....
The Convener:
Lab
I want to raise a couple of points for clarification. Is there a system of appeal against your decisions?
Frederick Marks:
No—apart from judicial review.