Committee
Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999
10 Nov 1999 · S1 · Local Government Committee
Item of business
Rating Revaluation
Brian Smillie (Scottish Retail Consortium):
Watch on SPTV
Good morning everyone. As Patrick Browne has said, I am president of the British Hardware Federation, and I would like to take a moment to explain the nature of our organisation. The British Hardware Federation does not relate to computer hardware, but to traditional hardware—ironmongery and housewares. Most of the members of the federation run small businesses. One of the benefits of being president is the opportunity to go round the country, speaking to members in their localities, chewing the fat about the business. It will come as no surprise that rates can be an emotive issue for most small businesses. There is a degree of apprehension about the new rating process. Nobody likes to pay tax and we accept that there will always be some dissent. However, the new system has aroused genuine feelings of apprehension because of the perceived uncertainty surrounding parts of it. There is no doubt that one factor that is important to the people whom I represent—and to most other retailers—is transitional relief. That has been one way of removing the uncertain, large additional costs. It has helped to smooth out the process. There is a full accord on transitional relief.I would like to reinforce Patrick Browne's comments. Most retailing companies face an increasing rates burden. In general, rates go up. The figures on increases are smoothed out across all the different categories of buildings, but for retailers the tax burden is an increasing one. I would argue that rates tend to make up a larger percentage of business cost for retailers, because of the nature of their location, than they do for other types of business. Retail businesses need to be in a visible spot and, therefore, their property will be perceived to have a higher value than a warehouse or factory in a less visible location.There is already a classification within the system to allow transitional relief for large and small businesses. However, it is sometimes difficult to classify businesses on the basis of their property. My company considers itself to be a small business. I know that it is invidious to discuss one example, but it might give members a flavour of the situation. I am not making a complaint; I am trying to give members an indication of the increases in the rates bill for my company in Edinburgh. Although the property value has gone up, following the last revaluation—we are now facing another one—I am referring to the increase in the amount that we have paid.Since 1994-95, the rates bill has increased by 49 per cent. The five successive increases have been: 10 per cent, 11.5 per cent, 12.12 per cent, 4.7 per cent and 4 per cent. That makes a total increase of 49 per cent. That has been an increasing burden on our business.I recognise that property in George Street in Edinburgh has increased in value, but we never realise the property value of our businesses until we come out of business. The tax is therefore arrived at in an arbitrary way, although we recognise that there must be some basis for it. Most retailing companies face an increasing burden. There are no swings and roundabouts. Most companies see it as a cost that always goes up.We are concerned by the suggestion that there would be some cross-subsidy between smaller businesses and larger businesses. We need to go back to how one classifies small and large. If we are to change from a system that is based on the value of a property and apply an overriding percentage to businesses that are perceived as large to subsidise businesses that are perceived as small, we will be breaking away from the fundamentals of the current system. We can all argue about the rights and wrongs of using property as the basis of the tax, but, if it is the basis, it should continue to be the basis, rather than being tinkered with by cross-subsidy. We need to know where to draw the line.As Patrick Browne said in his introduction, the rateable values of many of our members, who are not large businesses, tend to be above the £10,000 threshold. They see themselves as small, suburban, high-street town people and would not be happy if they felt that they were subsidising another sector of business sizes. That would be divisive.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
We shall now start the second item on our agenda, which is the continuation of our inquiry into rating revaluation. Our witnesses are representatives of the ...
Patrick Browne (Scottish Retail Consortium):
Thank you, convener. I shall introduce my colleagues. Mike Flecknoe is the rating executive with Boots, which is one of our members and operates approximatel...
Mike Flecknoe (Scottish Retail Consortium):
I will express only the view of Boots. Boots is a supporter of high streets and town centres and wants small businesses to thrive as they add to the vitality...
Patrick Browne:
The cost structure for retailing business is different from that of other types of business. On balance, retailing premises tend to be more heavily rated tha...
Brian Smillie (Scottish Retail Consortium):
Good morning everyone. As Patrick Browne has said, I am president of the British Hardware Federation, and I would like to take a moment to explain the nature...
Patrick Browne:
We are aware that a great deal of the committee's attention has so far focused on the proposals for a system of rates relief for small businesses. We have ha...
The Convener:
Lab
Thank you for that presentation. I am sure that there will be questions.
Donald Gorrie:
LD
Most of us see the point of transitional relief, but the fact that we hope that the new lot of transitional relief will come on top of continuing transitiona...
Patrick Browne:
The Scottish Retail Consortium has not given a great deal of thought to what scheme could be used to help smaller businesses. My colleagues may be able to in...
Mike Flecknoe:
I deal with business rates and would not pretend to be an expert on other forms of taxation. The point that we are trying to make is that there is no correla...
Brian Smillie:
I tend to support that. I appreciate the difficulty that you have, but rates should relate to economic activity rather than to the value of the property, whi...
Mr Gibson:
SNP
We all accept that the current system has a number of flaws, but I am concerned about how the system that you are proposing would work. If rates liability we...
Mike Flecknoe:
I do not disagree. However, the problem with the rating system is that it operates on a five-year revaluation cycle, with transitional relief. Usually, prope...
Mr Gibson:
SNP
Patrick talked about funding transitional relief from the Scottish consolidated fund. Have you worked out how much that would cost and where the money would ...
Patrick Browne:
We would prefer the scheme not to be fully self-funded, as that would increase the burden on the businesses it covers. Rating is a complex subject, and becau...
Mr Gibson:
SNP
As Michael told the Confederation of British Industry, the difficulty that we have is in deciding which budget to take the money from if the scheme is not se...
Patrick Browne:
We have indicated our support for transitional relief, but I want to reiterate our concern about the proposals of the Federation of Small Businesses, which w...
Mr Gibson:
SNP
Only if it were not self-financing.
Patrick Browne:
If you chose to pass the cost on to businesses, they would be faced with an additional tab to that amount. Either way, the scheme would create losers.
Mr McMahon:
Lab
I want to focus on one issue that may involve you as landlords. Can you tell me why large organisations that generate rents through competition should be sub...
Mike Flecknoe:
Strictly speaking, landlords do not pay business rates, unless the property is vacant, in which case they are classed as the occupier. The vast majority of o...
Patrick Browne:
The only SRC member that I am aware of that owns a significant amount of property is Marks and Spencer, which has 22 stores in Scotland. My understanding is ...
Mr McMahon:
Lab
As Kenny Gibson said, last week we questioned the Federation of Small Businesses. In response to one of my questions, the federation said that it would prefe...
Patrick Browne:
It is difficult for me to comment, as we have major concerns about the FSB's proposals. It would not be appropriate for me to say how we think that something...
Mr Paterson:
SNP
I welcome the candid approach that the consortium has adopted today towards the mix of properties and the impact on small businesses, given that most of your...
Patrick Browne:
I have not.
Mr Paterson:
SNP
That is okay. I will not ask about the paper and I will rephrase my question. Would you be interested in a system that genuinely considered the impact of bus...
Patrick Browne:
As I said before, the consortium does not have a collective view on the issue of rates relief for smaller businesses because of the balance of our membership...
Mike Flecknoe:
The difficulty lies in considering non-domestic rates only as they apply to small businesses. The variables cannot be considered without considering other va...
Mr Paterson:
SNP
Would you support it or just consider it?