Committee
Justice Committee, 12 Jan 2010
12 Jan 2010 · S3 · Justice Committee
Item of business
Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
My response is on a number of levels. First, to ensure that access is available to those who are perhaps most vulnerable and those whose problems may involve areas of law that are least likely to be regarded as profitable—such as welfare law, debt law and family law—we have obviously taken steps to make legal aid available, as appropriate and as far as we can reasonably afford in Scotland today. I note that Tom Murray's evidence on 15 December was that 619 firms are registered to do legal aid work, which is a fair number, that civil legal aid has increased by 35 per cent and that legal advice and assistance has increased by 6 per cent. In addition, as the member and the committee will know, we have provided reasonable increases to legal aid rates, and around half the people in Scotland are now financially eligible for civil legal aid. That general backdrop covers part of the question, but not all of it.Secondly, the bill provides a specific legal duty on the Scottish Legal Aid Board to assess and monitor the extent to which legal aid is available. That is an important duty. Such monitoring already happens. In Inverness in my constituency, in addition to the public defender, a civil legal aid service was set up after advice was received from Lindsay Montgomery and others at SLAB that there was a gap in legal aid services. I have visited that service and seen for myself how effectively it appears to operate. Therefore, the bill caters for ensuring the availability of legal aid throughout Scotland, particularly in rural areas where availability can be a concern.There are already pressures on local solicitors from increasing specialisation. Those pressures would exist irrespective of the bill and have been on-going for a long time. With that increasing specialisation—as Robert Brown will well know—many solicitors take the view that it is too risky to practise, for example, employment law before employment tribunals or debt law and family law, where statutory overlay has made the law fairly complex. The risk is that one cannot offer the standard of knowledge and expertise that makes one properly able to assist clients. Those trends will continue, and the legislation in itself cannot offer a solution to them.Finally, the member mentioned the scenario in which large concerns—I believe that he mentioned supermarkets—might seek to cherry pick business. Precisely because we share some of the general concerns that have been expressed by those such as the Scottish Law Agents Society, to which I alluded earlier, we have set out the most robust regulatory framework. If I may say so, the bill provides a Scottish solution to a Scottish problem, without involving a hugely expensive new quango, by providing a pretty smart and, I believe, effective way of regulating the new system. I am happy to go on, if I have the opportunity to do so, to explain why I believe that the solution that we offer is a good one.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Con
Item 2 also relates to the Legal Services (Scotland) Bill and is the main item of business this morning. I welcome Fergus Ewing, the Minister for Community S...
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing):
SNP
Good morning, convener and committee members. I begin by declaring that I am a Scottish solicitor, but I am not in practice.At the heart of the bill is the r...
The Convener:
Con
Thank you for your useful introduction. I certainly do not think that we want to do anything about rights of audience until the Thomson report, which follows...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Several factors have driven the case for reform. The committee is aware of the history, which is fully canvassed in the policy memorandum to the bill. In Eng...
The Convener:
Con
Given that the Westminster Government introduced the financial services act south of the border some years ago, what would be the impact of our not passing a...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
I presume that you are referring to the Legal Services Act 2007, not the financial services act.
The Convener:
Con
Sorry—yes.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
One facet that has emerged from almost all the evidence is that not passing the bill presents some very real risks for the Scottish legal profession. If we d...
The Convener:
Con
You may think that it is strange that I am raising this issue at this stage in the proceedings, bearing it in mind that the bill has been certified by both t...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
I am pleased that you have raised that issue with me. The answer is that I am satisfied. A number of issues have been raised relating to possible problems wi...
The Convener:
Con
It would be useful if you could give us a written representation on that heading.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Thank you.
The Convener:
Con
We now turn to questions surrounding access to justice, which will be led by Stewart Maxwell.
Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Good morning, minister. You said in your opening remarks that a number of witnesses have submitted evidence to the committee in which they express concern ab...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
My response is on a number of levels. First, to ensure that access is available to those who are perhaps most vulnerable and those whose problems may involve...
The Convener:
Con
You will have that opportunity shortly.
Stewart Maxwell:
SNP
We will come on to the issue of regulation in more detail shortly.The minister mentioned that the amount of legal aid work has increased. It has been express...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Arithmetically, the argument is correct, because 600 divided by 10,000 is 6 per cent—I am no mathematician, but I think that that is correct. I said earlier ...
Stewart Maxwell:
SNP
I hear what the minister is saying, but I have a final question. Although the legal services market is not directly comparable to many other areas of life in...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
I do not think so. I really do not think that the areas of law that we are talking about are likely to be of great interest to supermarkets. As the member en...
Colin McKay (Scottish Government Constitution, Courts and Law Directorate):
I was not sure whether the 600 to which Mr Maxwell referred were 600 individuals or 600 firms.
Stewart Maxwell:
SNP
I think that the minister used the figure 619.
Colin McKay:
If it was 600 firms, that would not be comparable with 10,000 individual solicitors, because firms would have more than one—
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
I was quoting Tom Murray, who referred to 619 registered civil firms.
Colin McKay:
So it is not quite such a fragile—
The Convener:
Con
It could be much higher.
Colin McKay:
Absolutely.More generally, a lot of access to justice issues were looked at in a fairly major review that was undertaken a few years ago. One of the review's...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD):
LD
I am intrigued by the suggestion that the bill will have advantages in social welfare law. To be frank, it seems to me that if, for example, one were to cons...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
The bill's primary purpose is not to tackle that problem, as I have already said. I hope that members agree that the provisions in the bill that directly app...
Robert Brown:
LD
I would like to avoid doubt about the motivation for the bill and its general purpose and direction. You have given a clear view of the position that would a...