Committee
Justice 2 Committee, 14 Sep 2004
14 Sep 2004 · S2 · Justice 2 Committee
Item of business
Fire (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Brian Allaway:
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I will pick up the point about areas that are not well defined, or even not included, in the bill. Part of our work that is very topical is our response to what we call new dimensions incidents, which might be caused by terrorists. The service is working up its ability to carry out search and rescue operations, not only in urban areas but in rural areas, and we had a fairly major example of that at Maryhill in Glasgow recently. Since then we have carried out two rescue operations in my area, one at a collapsed trench in West Lothian only last Saturday and one at a collapsed building in Leith a couple of weeks ago. We think that that area of work should be specifically included in the bill, to give the fire service a duty or responsibility to carry out the wider search and rescue role that we are asked to fulfil. Interruption.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Miss Annabel Goldie):
Con
Good afternoon. I welcome everyone to the 25th meeting of the Justice 2 Committee in 2004. Our purpose this afternoon is to continue our scrutiny of the Fire...
John Williams (Chief Fire Officers Association Scotland):
Yes, convener.Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. First, I thank the committee for giving the Chief Fire Officers Association the opportunity to deliver an...
The Convener:
Con
Thank you, Mr Williams. Incidentally, I should have passed on to the committee an apology from Nicola Sturgeon. I am sorry that I forgot to mention it.One of...
Brian Allaway (Chief Fire Officers Association Scotland):
It is a combination of both those things. From the way in which the bill is drafted, it appears that the minister will reserve powers to manage just about an...
The Convener:
Con
Might you be happier if that section were more precisely defined? Is there a situation in which you would not mind ministerial intervention as envisaged in s...
Brian Allaway:
Yes. We would not mind the ministerial intervention that is granted in section 2—we think that that is proper. We may want it to be expanded somewhat to allo...
The Convener:
Con
The issue strikes at the whole question of governance—who is in charge at any one time—which, judging by the introductory remarks of Mr Williams, is a concer...
Brian Allaway:
We believe that the framework document that the Executive signals in the bill is the way forward on that. The Executive has indicated that it will consult on...
The Convener:
Con
When questioned on the fact that the provision in the 1947 act for the firemaster to have a direct responsibility to the fire authority is not replicated in ...
Brian Allaway:
No. That will start to take away the responsibility of the firemaster to the fire authority for the effective and efficient delivery of the fire service and ...
The Convener:
Con
From what you have said about the balance of power and accountability, it seems that some of it could be tweaked by more specific drafting in the relevant se...
Brian Allaway:
It is not about being relevant; it is about being much more specific and making clear the lines of responsibility and accountability between the three levels...
Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):
Lab
I draw to your attention part 1 of the bill and specifically section 1, which is on fire and rescue authorities. Many of the submissions to the committees ha...
Brian Allaway:
An opportunity could have been taken to clarify current concerns. At the moment, the fire authorities' area of responsibility in relation to inshore and offs...
Karen Whitefield:
Lab
Do you believe that the amalgamation scheme arrangements set out in section 2 will provide for joint fire and rescue boards where appropriate?
Brian Murray (Chief Fire Officers Association Scotland):
We do not have a great problem with the way in which section 2 is drafted to allow powers to be taken. However, given the fact that this legislation could la...
Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
Sections 7 to 10 outline and define the main fire and rescue functions. Those are promoting fire safety, which is to do with providing information on prevent...
David Wynne (Chief Fire Officers Association Scotland):
One of the areas that we believe could be improved is the fire service's role in prevention and protection beyond fires. For example, the fire service could ...
Maureen Macmillan:
Lab
Thank you. Does anybody wish to add to that? Perhaps I could share my thoughts and see whether you want to comment.
The Convener:
Con
Could you put that in the form of questions for the witnesses?
Maureen Macmillan:
Lab
Yes. Do you think that the provision to restrict the spread of fires in buildings and other property and to protect life and property will cover forest fires...
Brian Murray:
The bill states:"each relevant authority shall make provision for … extinguishing fires in its area".However, on some occasions we need to control fires befo...
Maureen Macmillan:
Lab
Would you like that to be included in the bill?
John Williams:
We have always assumed that property is taken in its widest possible definition and includes the areas that you referred to, such as heathlands and forests, ...
Maureen Macmillan:
Lab
Perhaps we should ask the Executive to define the words "property" and "life".
Brian Allaway:
I will pick up the point about areas that are not well defined, or even not included, in the bill. Part of our work that is very topical is our response to w...
The Convener:
Con
I am sorry, Mr Allaway. We have some interference, part of which is electronic and is being attended to but part of which is quite outwith my control. One of...
Brian Allaway:
Yes. Since the horrific incident in New York on September 11 three years ago, the emergency services throughout the entire country have been working up their...
The Convener:
Con
Would you like that to be included in the bill?
Brian Allaway:
Yes, indeed.