Committee
Justice 2 Committee, 19 Nov 2002
19 Nov 2002 · S1 · Justice 2 Committee
Item of business
Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Speaker
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Section 42—Amendments in relation to certain non-custodial sentences
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
I welcome Dr Richard Simpson, the Deputy Minister for Justice, and his officials. This is our second meeting at stage 2 of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bi...
After section 41
The Convener:
Lab
Amendment 71 is in my name and in a group on its own. I will speak to and move the amendment, then call other members to speak.Amendment 71 is a probing amen...
Bill Aitken:
Con
Amendment 71 raises an interesting point of law. It is not clear from the existing legislation whether powers are available; if they are not, they should be....
The Convener:
Lab
As no other member wishes to speak, I call the minister.
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Dr Richard Simpson):
Lab
Amendment 71 appears to be intended to give courts the power to remand an offender in custody, pending the date of a hearing to determine whether there has b...
Bill Aitken:
Con
I was interested in what you had to say, minister. I am somewhat intrigued as to why the sheriff principal has got involved. If the recent judgment of Sherif...
Dr Simpson:
I cannot answer that. I am advised simply that the sheriff principal is involved in discussions with the sheriffs and that we will keep the matter under revi...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I may have misunderstood the minister, in which case I apologise in advance, but he appeared to suggest that because the amendment arises from a member of th...
Dr Simpson:
The advice that I am getting on the issue is that we must be very careful about the discussion that we undertake, as it could prejudice the outcome of simila...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
So, for clarity, there is no particular issue with dealing with the proposal now—I am not proposing that we do—any more than there would be at stage 3. We wo...
Dr Simpson:
Yes.
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
Thank you. That is helpful.
Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
On the point about remand, I wish to press the minister on the potential for returning at stage 3 with an appropriate amendment. He has said different things...
Dr Simpson:
I will try to be a little more precise. If there is any dubiety about the absence of powers in respect of remand, we would—as the committee clearly wishes if...
The Convener:
Lab
The MacLean committee report draws to our attention the need to look at the existing statute. Are we content that a lay person, in considering the statute, c...
Amendment 71, by agreement, withdrawn.
Section 42—Amendments in relation to certain non-custodial sentences
The Convener:
Lab
Amendment 72 is in a group on its own.
Bill Aitken:
Con
Amendment 72 deals with the vexed question of unpaid fines. The minister and I have crossed swords on this in the past, particularly when I raised with him t...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I have to say to Bill Aitken that lifebelts are in short supply after the recent disastrous flooding in the north-east of Scotland. However, I do not think t...
Dr Simpson:
I lean more towards the noose metaphor than the lifebelt.The Executive supports measures to enhance the effectiveness of fine collection and enforcement. Bil...
The Convener:
Lab
I want to clarify why the subject of amendment 72 is a reserved matter.
Dr Simpson:
It is a reserved matter because it involves deductions from social security benefits. Unless there is some other process that would be within our administrat...
The Convener:
Lab
So the deduction from benefit element is what is reserved, not the social security aspect.
Dr Simpson:
Yes. Amendment 72 would remove the adjudication officer from the process, which would not be a good thing. We should have the adjudication officer to help th...
The Convener:
Lab
I will not support amendment 72, but I want to be clear why the Executive considers it deals with a reserved matter. Does that mean that no court can deduct ...
Dr Simpson:
It does not mean that; it means that we cannot dispense with the person whom the DWP appoints to adjudicate on the matter. That officer is appointed under re...
The Convener:
Lab
I am sure that you have asked the same questions, minister. It is the arrestment of benefits that is within the competence of the Parliament, not the benefit...
Dr Simpson:
Yes, but amendment 72 would dismiss the adjudication officer's role. That may be possible, but it could interfere with—