Committee
Communities Committee, 04 May 2005
04 May 2005 · S2 · Communities Committee
Item of business
Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Members are right that the issue that the committee and others have flagged up is important. I am not quite sure that we have reached a conclusion yet, but the issue is certainly worth exploring further. However, I suspect that if things got to the stage of the regulator having adopted the kind of role to which John Home Robertson referred, the matter would need to be decided by courts at a level much further up the hierarchy than the Scottish charity appeals panel.The appeals panel is designed to provide a cheap and straightforward means whereby a charity might appeal a decision that has been made by either OSCR or a body to which OSCR has delegated powers. It was envisaged that the appeals process would be simple and quick, with many cases, for example, being dealt with by correspondence alone. The decision was taken to prevent the panel from awarding costs to parties in order to facilitate the provision of a simple, quick and inexpensive system. Requiring the panel to consider awarding expenses would considerably lengthen and complicate the process. Matters would only be exacerbated if the panel were also required to consider compensation. If the proposed changes were made, we would also need to set out either in regulations or in the bill how the panel would decide what level of expenses or compensation to award and how any consultation that might be required would impact on decisions. In addition, any decision on expenses or compensation that was made by the panel would itself need to be subject to appeal. As I have already pointed out, the result would be a much more drawn-out, complicated and expensive process for all involved and an increasingly less flexible appeals panel.I am concerned that amendments 78, 79 and 110 would allow the panel to award costs and compensation to the appellant but not to OSCR. Such a move would take us into the complicated issue of how financial loss and the level of compensation should be assessed. There might need to be an assessment of subjective issues, such as how charitable donations have been affected by the decision. In some cases, that could provide an opportunity for vexatious or frivolous complaints and for protracted procedures, which would impact on the panel's workload and greatly increase administrative costs. Indeed, OSCR's actions at earlier stages could also be inhibited.However, I recognise that we need to wrestle with the issue of expenses and ensure that we provide the level playing field to which Donald Gorrie referred. I recognise the strength of the committee's feelings on the matter and I undertake to consider the issue again before stage 3. In the meantime, I urge members not to support the amendments.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Karen Whitefield):
Lab
I open the Communities Committee's 14th meeting of 2005. I remind all who are present that mobile phones should be turned off.The first and only agenda item ...
Section 70—Decisions
Amendments 107 and 108 not moved.
Section 70 agreed to.
Section 71—Notice of decisions
The Convener:
Lab
Amendment 42, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 43 to 45.
The Deputy Minister for Communities (Johann Lamont):
Lab
The amendments relate to the notification of decisions and the appeals process for decisions that are made by a person to whom the Office of the Scottish Cha...
Amendment 42 agreed to.
Amendment 43 moved—Johann Lamont—and agreed to.
Section 71, as amended, agreed to.
Sections 72 to 74 agreed to.
Schedule 2 agreed to.
Section 75—Appeals to Scottish Charity Appeals Panel
The Convener:
Lab
Amendment 160, in the name of Christine Grahame, is grouped with amendments 78, 109 and 110. I point out that if amendment 160 is agreed to, amendments 78 an...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Amendment 160 seeks to delete section 75(6), which states:"The Panel may not award expenses to OSCR or to any person who appeals a decision."In law, it is us...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
This is an important area and one that the committee should explore with the minister. I lodged my amendment 78 with a view to ensuring that the matter is pr...
Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab):
Lab
Amendments 109 and 110, in my name, have the support of the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations. Donald Gorrie highlighted the fact that we have bee...
Mr John Home Robertson (East Lothian) (Lab):
Lab
I am grateful to colleagues for raising a rather interesting issue. It is not altogether surprising that a lawyer should be enthusiastic about the prospect o...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
Perhaps some day, but I have not been in practice for six years.
Mr Home Robertson:
Lab
Sorry. That was an unworthy thought.Section 75(6) currently states:"The Panel may not award expenses to OSCR or to any person who appeals a decision."By dele...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
Members are right that the issue that the committee and others have flagged up is important. I am not quite sure that we have reached a conclusion yet, but t...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I hear what the minister says, but I hope that she will tease out the issues of compensation and expenses, which are completely distinct issues. Industrial t...
Amendment 160, by agreement, withdrawn.
Amendments 78, 109 and 110 not moved.
The Convener:
Lab
We must now agree to section 75, but before we deal with that, I will allow Mrs Scanlon to comment as she has indicated a desire to speak.
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I am happy to agree to section 75, and we will discuss it further at stage 3, but can the minister and her advisers give the committee some idea of the costs...
The Convener:
Lab
That will obviously be a matter for stage 3. We will have to wait and see whether such amendments are lodged and the outcome of the minister's deliberations.
Section 75 agreed to.
Section 76 agreed to.
Section 77—Appeals to Court of Session