Committee
Public Audit Committee 17 March 2026 [Draft]
17 Mar 2026 · S6 · Public Audit Committee
Item of business
Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Public Pensions Agency”
Dr Pathirana
Watch on SPTV
It is not that he has missed something; it is more that it would have been helpful to know that wider context. The Auditor General is rightly saying, “Here is a deadline. You are meant to deliver by this deadline and you have not delivered,” and then setting things out as he sees them. If set in the UK-wide context, it is easier to understand that, first, it would have been impossible for the SPPA to deliver all this stuff within the timeframe, because we had not had the guidance from the UK Government in time, and, secondly, if we had done that, we would have been an exception.Why was it so difficult? It was difficult because an exercise in this level of change to pension schemes has never been conducted before. It has thrown up complexities that nobody ever considered were possible. It is not just about providing people with two levels or two calculations; we have to factor in all the different elements of the different pension rules under each scheme. We have to provide that duality next to each other. We have to better factor in tax considerations. For some schemes, we have to factor in repayment considerations and interest considerations. There are lots of different factors.It is an unprecedented exercise and, in that context, it is quite reasonable that pension administrators—and this goes back slightly before my time—whether that be the SPPA or other pension administrators across the UK, underestimated the scale of the challenge.
In the same item of business
11:30
The Convener
Lab
Our principal agenda item is consideration of the section 22 report, “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Public Pensions Agency”. From the SPPA, I welcome Dr ...
Dr Stephen Pathirana (Scottish Public Pensions Agency)
Thank you, convener. Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to engage with the committee on the SPPA’s progress to deliver the McCloud remedy, follo...
The Convener
Lab
I will begin where you finished. For our benefit, what is the relationship between you and the Scottish Government—the director general corporate? Our unders...
Dr Pathirana
You are absolutely correct: we are an executive agency. In that context, a governance framework document sets out our terms of governance. It has been signed...
The Convener
Lab
Lesley Fraser, I do not know whether you can help to clarify the relationship.
Lesley Fraser (Scottish Government)
I act as a co-ordinator and overseer of the work of the agency, to ensure that it delivers against its strategic objectives, that we are confident in its gov...
The Convener
Lab
Okay, thank you. While you are on the microphone, director general, does the Scottish Government accept the findings, recommendations and conclusions in the ...
Lesley Fraser
Yes. I, too, am delighted that the agency has an unqualified opinion from Audit Scotland. That is hugely important. I accept in full, or very close to in ful...
The Convener
Lab
I am sure that the Auditor General understands that. Nonetheless, he thought it right to lay before the Parliament a section 22 report, because, as he descri...
Lesley Fraser
It is absolutely right to scrutinise that, and it is hugely important that the Auditor General undertakes his proper role and that there is proper scrutiny i...
The Convener
Lab
Okay, but we take advice from the Auditor General, and he has laid before us, as members of the Parliament, a section 22 report—bear in mind that it was publ...
Lesley Fraser
I have discussed that with Stephen Pathirana and the team at the SPPA, as has the Minister for Public Finance. I have also looked in detail at the management...
The Convener
Lab
Dr Pathirana, how do you respond to paragraph 23 of the Auditor General’s report, which I just read to Lesley Fraser?
Dr Pathirana
It is absolutely right for the Auditor General to ask those questions and raise those concerns. Although the report was published only recently, the data tha...
The Convener
Lab
Lesley Fraser alluded to the fact that her understanding is that your progress is broadly in line with that of agencies in England and Wales. However, the Au...
Dr Pathirana
The Auditor General is reflecting exactly what I said to the FPA Committee last year. As I said in my opening statement, pensions providers up and down the c...
The Convener
Lab
You have mentioned the Finance and Public Administration Committee a couple of times. You had some correspondence with the convener of that committee, Kenny ...
Dr Pathirana
What I mean is giving people the choice. The goal of the McCloud remedy is to ensure that people have a choice between their career average revalued earnings...
The Convener
Lab
If I put my feet in the boots of a retired firefighter, I would find that zero per cent of them have been issued with remediable service statements.
Dr Pathirana
The figure was zero per cent when the Audit Scotland report was done, but, as of yesterday, we had issued 37 per cent of firefighter RSSs. Again, we are maki...
The Convener
Lab
My final question is on your 17 February 2026 letter to Kenneth Gibson, convener of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. The annex to the letter ...
Dr Pathirana
One of the challenges in trying to answer the FPA Committee convener’s question has been getting reliable and publicly available data. We have managed to get...
The Convener
Lab
We might get to that, but, in the interest of moving things along, I invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Reform)
Reform
Lesley Fraser, at the start of the meeting, the convener asked whether you accepted in full the recommendations of the report. You said that you accepted the...
Lesley Fraser
It is particularly in relation to the challenge of being transparent and communicating clearly with members affected by the McCloud remedy. The Auditor Gener...
Graham Simpson
Reform
Is there an element of the Auditor General’s report that you are not comfortable with?
Lesley Fraser
It is that aspect in particular. There are particular difficulties and challenges with being able to be as clear and transparent with members who are affecte...
Graham Simpson
Reform
Dr Pathirana, in your letter to Mr Gibson of 17 February, you said:“I understand Audit Scotland’s position is that while it is recognised this is a UK-wide i...
Dr Pathirana
It is not that he has missed something; it is more that it would have been helpful to know that wider context. The Auditor General is rightly saying, “Here i...