Committee
Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Jan 2003
15 Jan 2003 · S1 · Health and Community Care Committee
Item of business
Mental Health (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Good morning. I warn members that my first explanation will be lengthy, although I assure them that subsequent explanations will be shorter.Amendments 51 to 54 supplement local authorities' duties to provide services for certain people who are not in hospital with powers to provide similar services for people who are in hospital.Under the bill, local authorities will have a duty to provide or to secure the provision of a range of services: care and support services for people with mental disorder; services that are designed to promote well-being and social development for people who have or who have had a mental disorder; and assistance in travelling in connection with those services. However, all those duties will apply only in relation to people who are not in hospital. The Association of Directors of Social Work, in particular, raised concerns that that did not reflect the current pattern of service provision and could act to prevent local authorities from providing services for people who are in hospital.Amendments 51, 52 and 54 will provide local authorities with powers to provide or to secure the provision of such services for people who are in hospital. In that way, the right framework of duties and powers will be established to enable local authorities to deliver the right services to the right people.Amendment 53, which is secondary to amendment 52, will ensure that the power that amendment 52 seeks to provide for, as well as the duty that the bill already provides for, will be without prejudice to the operation of the more general duties and powers that are listed in section 21(3).Amendments 55 and 56 concern the relationship between local authority duties under the bill and duties under the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968. The bill provides that the duties that it imposes in sections 20 to 22 are without prejudice to local authorities' more general duties under section 12(1) of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968 and under section 22(1) of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995. It ensures that the new duties will not reduce or dilute a local authority's duties under those acts.For the same reasons, we feel that, on reflection, it is also necessary to make it clear that the new duties are without prejudice to the duties that are set out in sections 13A, 13B and 14 of the 1968 act, which relate to the provision of residential accommodation with nursing, the provision of care and aftercare and the provision of domiciliary and laundry services. Amendments 55 and 56 seek to amend section 24(2)(a) to include the relevant provisions of the 1968 act.Amendments 237, 238 and 239 are in the name of Scott Barrie. Amendment 237 deals with the duties of local authorities to provide services to promote well-being and social development as they apply to children and young people. We understand the desire to ensure that children and young people who have or who have had a mental disorder receive services to promote their well-being and social development. We fully support that aim, which is why section 21(1) applies to children and young people. However, amendment 237 would create duties in mental health law in relation to children who are deemed to be at risk of mental disorder, which it is unnecessary and undesirable to do.The Children (Scotland) Act 1995 makes provision for addressing the needs of children who might be at risk of developing mental disorder. Local authorities have a duty to safeguard and promote the welfare of children in need by providing a range and level of services that are appropriate to the children's needs. That duty requires local authorities and their partner agencies in, for example, health, education and the voluntary sector to assess the needs of children in their area within the framework for planning children's services that is set out in the 1995 act.The guidance that was issued for implementation of the 1995 act describes a broad range of needs that call for services under the act. Children who have emotional, behavioural and mental health problems are included, as are children who experience a broad range of circumstances and problems that could increase their risk of developing mental health problems.There is no obvious way of distinguishing children at risk of mental disorder from children who experience other difficulties and trauma. Although some children will certainly need support from specialist child and adolescent mental health services, they will also need sensitive and skilled support from those who look after them: their parents, their teachers, their social workers, those in mainstream health services and others.Section 21 of the 1995 act places duties on health services to collaborate with local authorities in ensuring that children's needs are met and to provide resources, where necessary, to help the local authority to discharge its duties. We are concerned about the problems that have been reported in ensuring that children receive appropriate responses from mental health services, particularly when in-patient care is required.The legislative framework for meeting children's needs is clear. If that is not working, we should tackle the problems in the organisations and services, rather than add more legislation. We must bring children's and adolescents' mental health services into the main stream of services for children, and ensure that those services are given due priority alongside the other supports that they might need.Amendment 238 would add a duty to provide services aimed at preventing the development of mental disorder. I understand that the amendment might be intended to apply particularly to children and young people, although it is general in effect. Again, we share the wish to ensure that children and young people are supported from their earliest years to develop resilience and well-being. The Executive is committed to providing support for vulnerable and disadvantaged children, so that they are able to reach their full potential. However, we believe that the duty on local authorities to provide preventive services exists already.First, as I have said, local authorities have a duty under the 1995 act to safeguard and promote the welfare of children in need by providing a range of services. Secondly, we have put in place a wide range of policies and programmes that have a common aim of improving services for vulnerable children and improving the integration of those services. We need to dismantle the separate silos of children's mental health services and fully integrate those services with other core supports. The action team's report, "For Scotland's children", and our national review of child protection practice highlighted the hardship to be tackled in Scotland, which leaves a lasting legacy of mental health problems. Both reiterate the importance of joined-up responses to children and families and seamless support.In response to the issues that have been highlighted in the child protection review, the Executive has announced a three-year programme to reform child protection. A team of action officers will work directly with local agencies to promote reform. The programme will include reform of the services that are required to support the mental health and well-being of our most vulnerable children and young people. The programme includes work to tackle the stigma that can be associated with mental ill health and action to tackle the high rate of suicide in Scotland, particularly among young men. We recognise the fact that we must improve self-esteem and confidence, as well as the physical and mental health and well-being of children and young people. Therefore, we are setting up a group to promote that in the school environment.Finally, amendment 239 would add a duty to provide education and associated activities. We believe that the amendment is unnecessary. Section 189 brings the small number of children who are detained under mental health legislation within the normal duties of education authorities for the first time. Moreover, existing legislation already places a wide duty on education authorities to secure the direction of education to the development of the personality, talents and mental and physical abilities of children and young people to their fullest potential. Furthermore, teachers' duties include a responsibility for pastoral care of pupils, and the guidance system in schools is there to support vulnerable children.The Executive is about to publish a draft bill on additional support for learning. The proposals in that bill will place a duty on education authorities to identify and address the needs of children and young people who require additional support to benefit from education, including pupils with mental health problems. For adults, too, statutory arrangements exist in relation to further and higher education, which apply equally to people with mental disorder. Those arrangements will be supplemented by the duties in section 21, with respect to training, cultural activities and so forth. I therefore invite Scott Barrie not to move amendments 237, 238 and 239.I move amendment 51.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith):
LD
Good morning and welcome to this morning's meeting of the Health and Community Care Committee. We have one agenda item: stage 2 of the Mental Health (Scotlan...
Section 20—Care and support services etc
The Convener:
LD
Amendment 51 is grouped with amendments 237, 238, 52, 239 and 53 to 56.
The Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care (Mrs Mary Mulligan):
Lab
Good morning. I warn members that my first explanation will be lengthy, although I assure them that subsequent explanations will be shorter.Amendments 51 to ...
Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab):
Lab
I have listened carefully to what the minister has said about the three amendments in my name. She said that some of what they try to achieve is already cove...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I want to raise a point that I have made during the passage of both the Community Care and Health (Scotland) Bill and this bill. I am concerned about the joi...
The Convener:
LD
In the absence of a specific amendment on that wording, I direct the minister to concentrate on the member's general point.
Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab):
Lab
As I understand the minister's arguments on amendments 237 and 238, the amendments are redundant because provision is made within the 1995 act for children w...
Mrs Mulligan:
In response to Scott Barrie, I say that the definition of "children in need" was necessarily wide to ensure that all children and young people to whom the de...
Amendment 51 agreed to.
Section 20, as amended, agreed to.
Section 21—Services designed to promote well-being and social development
Amendments 237 and 238 not moved.
Amendment 52 moved—Mrs Mary Mulligan—and agreed to.
Amendment 239 not moved.
Amendment 53 moved—Mrs Mary Mulligan—and agreed to.
Section 21, as amended, agreed to.
Section 22—Assistance with travel
Amendment 54 moved—Mrs Mary Mulligan—and agreed to.
Section 22, as amended, agreed to.
Section 23 agreed to.
Section 24—Relationship between duties under sections 20 to 22 and duties under Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968 and Children (Scotland) Act 1995
Amendments 55 and 56 moved—Mrs Mary Mulligan—and agreed to.
Section 24, as amended, agreed to.
Section 25—Co-operation with Health Boards and others
Amendment 57 moved—Mrs Mary Mulligan—and agreed to.
Section 25, as amended, agreed to.
Section 26—Assistance from Health Boards and National Health Service trusts
Amendments 58 to 60 moved—Mrs Mary Mulligan—and agreed to.
Section 26, as amended, agreed to.