Committee
Health and Community Care Committee, 10 May 2000
10 May 2000 · S1 · Health and Community Care Committee
Item of business
Subordinate Legislation
Patrick Browne:
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The practical effect is the one that I addressed earlier in relation to catering premises in a store. If a coffee shop is part of a retail floor space and is classed as that by the local authority, it will come under the terms of the butcher licensing regulations, despite the fact that the regulations as drafted seek to exclude catering premises.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
LD
Agenda item 2 is subordinate legislation. We have been approached by the Scottish Retail Consortium. It has some concerns about the Food Safety (General Food...
Patrick Browne (Scottish Retail Consortium):
Thank you, convener. I will start by introducing my colleagues, Roger Hammons, who is the company standards executive with Somerfield Stores Ltd and Bob Jami...
Roger Hammons (Scottish Retail Consortium):
Somerfield and Kwik Save are the same company. We operate more than 100 supermarkets in Scotland. Some fresh food operations in those stores are run by separ...
Patrick Browne:
Bob Jamie would like to make a specific point about the status of proprietors in Scotland.
Bob Jamie (Scottish Retail Consortium):
There is a third category of business ownership that is peculiar to Scotland and needs to be referred to specifically in the regulations. A Scottish partners...
Patrick Browne:
Our third concern relates to the training requirements that are set out in the regulations. I stress that the consortium is not questioning those requirement...
Margaret Jamieson:
Lab
Thank you for giving us such a broad outline of the consortium's position. I have some reservations. As someone who does not normally use a butcher's shop, b...
Patrick Browne:
I will deal with the question about the possible impact on the operation of stores and, ultimately, on jobs. The regulatory impact assessment that accompanie...
The Convener:
LD
Your concerns relate not to the regulations as a whole, but to some of the practicalities.
Kay Ullrich:
SNP
You made a point about in-house training. How would the standard of that training be verified? In-house training can mean many things.
Roger Hammons:
There is a syllabus for training in basic and intermediate food hygiene. We would have to show to the local authority's satisfaction that the company's in-ho...
Kay Ullrich:
SNP
Would you envisage outside accreditors coming into a store, as they do in the case of Scottish vocational qualifications, to verify that the required standar...
Roger Hammons:
Many of the companies to which we are referring employ people in-house to check that the store managers and people in the store are carrying out the company'...
Kay Ullrich:
SNP
But that is all in-house.
Roger Hammons:
Yes, but they have to produce a separate report. Under the legislation on pricing and date marking, we have to be able to demonstrate reasonable caution and ...
Kay Ullrich:
SNP
Do you have any objection to external verifiers coming in to ensure that in-house training is meeting the required standard?
Roger Hammons:
We would object to a third party coming in. The external invigilators should be the local authority enforcement officers.
Irene Oldfather:
Lab
Kay Ullrich has already asked my question, which was about who would decide what was equivalent training, how it would be monitored, and what the quality con...
Margaret Jamieson:
Lab
Have the trainers in your organisation been validated as qualified to discharge that duty?
Roger Hammons:
Yes, they have. There are basic, intermediate and advanced levels of hygiene training, and the regulations require certain people to have basic and intermedi...
Kay Ullrich:
SNP
Is that external training?
Roger Hammons:
Yes. It is carried out by environmental health bodies.
Margaret Jamieson:
Lab
So the trainers are qualified.
Roger Hammons:
Yes, they are.
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
I have a general question. I am not entirely clear about the practical effect of passing these regulations. There seem to be references in them to specific a...
Patrick Browne:
The issue is to ensure that the regulations apply to the parts of a store to which they should apply. As I said, our fundamental concern is that the regulati...
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
What are the practical effects on other parts of the shop, given that most of the regulations are specific to those parts of the shop?
Patrick Browne:
The practical effect is the one that I addressed earlier in relation to catering premises in a store. If a coffee shop is part of a retail floor space and is...
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
What would have to be done in the coffee shop that would be undesirable?
Patrick Browne:
The second issue is the point Roger Hammons made about concessions operating within stores. In trying to resolve that point, one has to deal with the mixed r...