Committee
Education, Children and Young People Committee 07 January 2026
07 Jan 2026 · S6 · Education, Children and Young People Committee
Item of business
Subordinate Legislation
Cross-border Placement of Children (Requirements, Effect and Enforcement) (Scotland) Regulations 2026 [Draft]
I was not a member of the committee when evidence was taken on the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill. However, my understanding, from reading some of the exchanges and evidence that was given, is that part of the rationale for reducing cross-border placements was—this was, I think, from the Scottish Government and the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland—to try to force the English system to become better by reducing the amount of placements that came to Scotland and therefore compelling the previous UK Government to do better. From your exchange with Mr Rennie, I understand that the numbers have decreased. From what you have said, minister, you appear to be having a positive and fruitful dialogue with the new UK Government about what it is doing to improve the system. If the numbers have gone down and there is now an improvement, if you like, in the system in England—which is very welcome, of course—does the rationale for reducing cross-border placements still stand?
In the same item of business
The Convener
Con
Welcome back. Our next agenda item is consideration of the draft Cross-border Placement of Children (Requirements, Effect and Enforcement) (Scotland) Regulat...
The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes)
SNP
Good morning. Happy new year to everyone. I hope that you had a nice break. I am very pleased to introduce draft regulations that ensure legal recognition o...
Willie Rennie
LD
I thank the minister for that update. Will she tell us the current number of cross-border placements from England? Has the number gone up and down? If so, wh...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
I believe that there are four deprivation of liberty order placements—I will pass over to officials for the official numbers.
Rachael Wilson (Scottish Government)
I will read out our latest data. As of 30 November 2025, there were approximately 100 children placed cross-border into residential care in Scotland. A break...
Louisa Brown (Scottish Government)
We have less data on that, but there are approximately 30 fostering placements from England and Northern Ireland. We do not currently have data from Wales.
Willie Rennie
LD
Are those numbers up or down?
Rachael Wilson
In 2022, prior to the 2022 deprivation of liberty order regulations coming into force, there were approximately 17 deprivation of liberty orders. That number...
Willie Rennie
LD
Why has it gone from 17 to three? Do we know why?
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
Work is being undertaken in England to ensure the capacity of their own sector. For example, I met the relevant minister yesterday to discuss cross-border pl...
Willie Rennie
LD
One of the previous concerns was that two children in the same care home—one from Scotland and one from England—would have different rights. We were anxious ...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
There was no discussion on that. As I say, there were many things on the agenda for my discussion with the minister yesterday. Cross-border placements was on...
Willie Rennie
LD
Staying on the issue of potentially having two different standards for different children in the same environment, have any problems emerged from children ha...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
Could you be more specific, Mr Rennie? 10:00
Willie Rennie
LD
Were there any complaints from their advocates about the fact that the children who have come from England do not get the same rights as those from Scotland?...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
No such issue been brought to my attention. I am not sure whether officials could elaborate on that.
The Convener
Con
To go back a bit, Ms Brown, do we not have figures for Wales because there are no transfers from Wales, or is it because that information is not shared?
Louisa Brown
We have asked and Wales has not been able to give us any figures. We assume that there are none at the moment.
The Convener
Con
Wales is not saying that there are zero, but that it cannot provide figures.
Louisa Brown
Yes.
The Convener
Con
You are making the assumption that there are none.
Louisa Brown
Yes. There are only three from Northern Ireland and the rest—the majority—are from England. We are not aware of any from Wales. We have asked, but it has not...
The Convener
Con
Have we had any issues getting figures previously?
Louisa Brown
This is the first time that we have collected the data, so we do not have any historical data to compare it with.
The Convener
Con
So, it is not an issue with the Welsh Government not sharing or anything like that.
Louisa Brown
No.
The Convener
Con
Okay. I call Paul O’Kane.
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I was not a member of the committee when evidence was taken on the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill. However, my unders...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
I appreciate that you were not on the committee at that time, Mr O’Kane, but I have been clear on the matter several times previously. There will always like...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I agree that the placement must be appropriate for the best interests of a child; what this legislation does is create several processes to go through that. ...