Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 06 January 2026
06 Jan 2026 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Swimming Pools
Before I call the next speaker, I advise members that we already have a later decision time. We are quite far behind the allocated time for this debate, so members will have to stick to their speaking time allocations and any interventions will need to be brief and accommodated within those time allocations. I call Patrick Harvie to speak for up to four minutes.
16:54In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)
LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-20185, in the name of Jackson Carlaw, and lodged on behalf of the Citizen Participation and Public Petiti...
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con)
Con
How exciting it is, on the first day back, to be able to bring this debate to the chamber. I begin by introducing petition PE2018, which was lodged by Helen ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray)
SNP
While I acknowledge the point that Mr Carlaw narrates on behalf of COSLA, does he accept that last year’s budget gave a real-terms increase to local governme...
Jackson Carlaw
Con
The point that COSLA and others made to us is that, with so many different areas being—appropriately—ring fenced, the capacity for discretionary action by co...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
SNP
Jackson Carlaw mentioned pool closures. I am sure that he will be encouraged to learn that the Alloa Leisure Bowl—if he ever saw it, he would realise how ina...
Jackson Carlaw
Con
I have to say to Mr Brown that that was not part of the extensive evidence that the committee heard. All who gave evidence talked of the pressures on funding...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
The committee convener makes a powerful point about life saving, particularly in an educational context—teaching children the confidence to swim not just in ...
Jackson Carlaw
Con
That was very much the view that the committee took and is taken by some councils—albeit increasingly fewer, because of the pressures and considerations that...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
You need to conclude.
Jackson Carlaw
Con
They demand a clear plan for the whole of Scotland and action to implement such a plan. In the absence of support, swimming pools across the country will fi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I advise members that we are already running a little behind schedule, so I will have to keep members to their speaking time allocations. 16:35
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray)
SNP
I acknowledge the motion that has been lodged, and I thank Jackson Carlaw, the committee convener, for setting out his case with his usual rhetorical flouris...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
The cabinet secretary has said that swimming saves health and social care money and promotes wellbeing. However, Jedburgh and Selkirk pools are being shut an...
Neil Gray
SNP
We have passed over significant Barnett consequentials, as I set out in my intervention on Mr Carlaw, in an increase to local government funding, which I wil...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Colleagues across the chamber are well aware that I have been a very strong advocate for the aims outlined in the petition for a very long time. I very much ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I call Neil Bibby—up to five minutes, please. 16:48
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
A happy new year to you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and to everyone across the chamber. Scottish Labour very much welcomes the debate, and I thank Jackson Ca...
Neil Gray
SNP
Will the member give way?
Neil Bibby
Lab
The cabinet secretary can point to the last financial year, but his Government had £5 billion extra from the Labour UK Government, so he could hardly have cu...
Neil Gray
SNP
Will the member give way?
Neil Bibby
Lab
I am limited for time, cabinet secretary. It is not just about that £5 billion extra. As I told the petitions committee last year, when the Scottish Governm...
Neil Gray
SNP
Will the member give way?
Neil Bibby
Lab
I will give way if it is brief. I am limited for time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Briefly, cabinet secretary.
Neil Gray
SNP
We just heard from Mr Carlaw about evidence from COSLA on the need to ensure that we do not have restrictive ring fencing of funding. I have just set out the...
Neil Bibby
Lab
I do not know whether the cabinet secretary was listening before I took his intervention. I just said that, last year, you had £5 billion extra from the Labo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Please speak through the chair.
Neil Bibby
Lab
It is harder for people to access swimming pools and lessons just now because, for years, the Scottish Government has made it harder for councils to fund the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Before I call the next speaker, I advise members that we already have a later decision time. We are quite far behind the allocated time for this debate, so m...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I thank the committee for the work that it has done and, of course, the petitioners for raising the issue. I will mention two particular pools and two par...