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Showing 60 of 2,096,445 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,975. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 11 Jun 2026.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
17:18
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
That concludes decision time.17:31The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The final question is, that motion S7M-00346, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on committee membership, be agreed to.Motion agreed to,That the Parliament agrees the membership of committees of the Parliament as follows—Climate Action Committ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, is: For 67, Against 25, Abstentions 26.Motion, as amended, agreed to,That the Parliament welcomes that the...
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am sorry—I could not connect to the voting app. I would have abstained.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The sixth question is, that motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, is: For 36, Against 67, Abstentions 16.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and Wes...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote will be recorded.
Duncan Dunlop (South Scotland) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I apologise—my vote was not recorded. I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The fifth question is, that amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is: For 26, Against 91, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Is...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, is: For 66, Against 27, Abstentions 26.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, is: For 17, Against 92, Abstentions 9.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform)Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform)Langan, Jam...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Malcolm Offord is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Murdo Fraser will fall.The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan M...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, is: For 94, Against 15, Abstentions 9.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Okay, thank you.
Lorna Slater (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Green Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
My apologies, Presiding Officer. That was left over from when the app was not working.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
We come to the vote on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee. Members should cast their vote now.The vote is closed.We have a point of order from Lorna Slater.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.17:18Meeting suspended.17:21On resuming—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The question on the motion will be put at decision time.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I hate to disappoint Ivan McKee, but his speech was not the last speech before the world cup. I will also undoubtedly disappoint other members given that we are looking to get out, but I will not take too long.Members will be aware that standing orders require the Parliamentar...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
Go on—why not?
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Jamie Hepburn) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I will move and speak to the motion, Presiding Officer.
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S7M-00346, on committee membership. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move the motion.17:16
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
That concludes the debate on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does Mr Kerr want to intervene? I will get the time back, so I am happy to take his point. No, he does not. Okay.We have already saved more than £50 million on estates. I thought that it was 12, but we have now, in fact, shut 13 Scottish Government buildings. Murdo Fraser has ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Mr Kerr, you know to try to intervene rather than to attack from a sedentary position.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I think that the confusion is more broad. The Reform manifesto talks about getting rid of all 130 public bodies—or “quangos”, as they call them. However, there is also a recognition from across the Reform benches that those public bodies—whether Police Scotland, the court syst...
Victor Currie (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Reform Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does the cabinet secretary recall that Max Bannerman’s point on community wind farms was that they do not rely on subsidies? Therefore, it forms no contradiction in Reform policy on our opposition to net zero.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Yes. David Barratt also draws out the important point that the inconsistency in the Reform position is quite apparent. Reform members say in their amendment that we should not be talking about this stuff, and then they go on to talk about it from very different and contradicto...
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
—renewable energy schemes and for community-owned wind. Does the cabinet secretary agree that that is not the kind of reform that we need?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Hello. It is not a speech within a speech. It is an intervention.
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In moving the Reform amendment, Malcolm Offord stated that the Scottish Government should have no remit on net zero and energy, and he suggested cutting public bodies that are responsible for related areas. In contrast, Max Bannerman noted the value of community wind power in ...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I will take David Barratt’s intervention, and then I will go on to talk about those other contributions.
David Barratt (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In principle, we need stability of funding and to recognise the great work that happens in community organisations, which I see every week in my constituency. That work is absolutely critical, because those organisations are, to a large extent, the front line, and their abilit...
Bob Doris SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I commend the comments on the third sector that we have heard in the chamber this afternoon. I draw the cabinet secretary’s attention to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee’s report on funding of the third and voluntary sectors, and I highlight the longer-term fun...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
On reflection, I am happy with the extent of the contributions that we have heard this afternoon. As I indicated at the outset, I was keen to hear from members, and that is what has happened for the most part. I will try to pick my way through the mind map that I have in front...
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Before I call the cabinet secretary, I say to members that, if they seek to make an intervention, they should remember to stand up and ask to make an intervention. I notice that buttons are pressed but, sometimes, the speakers do not see who is trying to intervene.17:05
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
We move to the open debate.15:58
Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I congratulate Ivan McKee—I will call him super Ivan, given the scale of his task, based on his speech and the vision that he has set out today.From listening to colleagues from across the chamber, I am struck that there is a lot of common ground here, and I think that we need...
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I begin by welcoming the cabinet secretary to his new role and wishing him well. As we have already heard, Mr McKee has been handed what might become the defining task of this Government, which is tackling the £5 billion black hole in Scotland’s finances. As Murdo Fraser has j...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I call Murdo Fraser, who joins us online.15:47
Michael Marra Lab Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I point gently to the fact that Alyn Smith’s party had an outright majority in the Parliament for one of those parliamentary sessions, so not having had the numbers is not a foolproof excuse.Alyn Smith will find common ground across different areas. My note of caution to him w...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I should explain that I am having to contribute remotely today due to a family issue; otherwise, I would be in the chamber.I welcome Ivan McKee to his new role as Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform. I know that he is keen to dispel the notion that he is here as an axe...
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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 06 January 2026

06 Jan 2026 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Swimming Pools
Smith, Liz Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

Colleagues across the chamber are well aware that I have been a very strong advocate for the aims outlined in the petition for a very long time. I very much welcome the work that has been undertaken by the convener, Jackson Carlaw, and his colleagues on the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee.

When the Scottish Government comes to sum up at the end of this afternoon’s debate, I hope that it will make specific reference to the committee’s call for a task force to combine all the relevant stakeholders that the cabinet secretary mentioned earlier. Implementing such a recommendation could be immensely helpful.

My colleagues in the Scottish Conservatives fully support this debate, and here is why. There are 295 public swimming pools in Scotland. Of those, 122 are more than 38 years old, which is the average lifespan of a pool. On current trends, that means the potential loss of more than 150 pools by 2040; we would have to replace them at the rate of four pools per year to maintain the current level of provision. It is very clear from that evidence that the future of community pools is in jeopardy, and that is why the public is desperate for parliamentarians to do something about it. It really matters to families and local communities.

Throughout the lifetime of the petition, in my role as convener of the cross-party group on sport, I have consulted extensively with Scottish Swimming. I have co-hosted two fringe events at party conferences, alongside former Olympic swimmer Hannah Miley MBE, on the issue of access to pools. In October 2025, I was invited to attend the excellent national learn to swim 10-year celebration event with Scottish Swimming, Scottish Water and the Olympian Duncan Scott OBE. Both those Olympians were in no doubt whatever about the challenge that we face. In September 2023, I held a members’ business debate on the save our pools campaign and, in March 2024, I formally submitted my support for the petition to the convener of the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee.

Swimming remains incredibly popular: 13 per cent of adults swim regularly, making it the sport with highest participation levels after multigym and weight training—although I have to say to the cabinet secretary that pickleball is fast catching up, I think—and, most importantly, swimming is the most popular participation sport for those with disabilities, due to its suitability for those with reduced mobility. That is why nine out of 10 Scots believe that the closure of swimming pools is very bad for their local communities.

There is also the safety aspect, which other members have spoken about. Learning to swim is a key life skill, but it is in decline. There were 33 accidental drownings in 2024, which is a stark reminder of why those skills are so important. In a country with such an abundance of lochs, rivers, reservoirs and beaches, we must be ever more vigilant to the dangers of water and ensure that all children have the basic ability to swim. At this point, I issue a warning to some of the influencers on platforms such as Instagram and TikTok who are irresponsibly advertising some of those dangerous locations as beauty spots, at the same time as withholding key information about safety. That is unacceptable in this age of mass social media.

It is the issue of school swimming that concerns me most, because it is still a key target for some local authority cuts. Eight of our local authorities do not offer school swimming at all, and a further 10 have only a partial school swimming offer. That brings me to the point about the postcode lottery that exists with regard to who is able to access learn to swim programmes. Disadvantaged children in deprived communities are far less likely to be able to access swimming, given both the rising costs of lessons and the lack of provision at school.

My primary driver for introducing legislation on residential outdoor education was to address the inherent unfairness, in that so many children were not being offered the opportunity because of their circumstances. Studies have shown that, just as there are benefits from outdoor education, that is also true of swimming. If all young people are to learn to swim—as I believe they should—there must be adequate provision of pools around the country within reasonable distances.

There are also the health and wellbeing elements. Pools are social hubs and promote a healthy lifestyle for body and mind. They provide a centre for families and communities and, in many cases, for competitions at both elite and grass-roots levels. Many people have childhood memories of swimming, sharing fun experiences with friends, parents and grandparents, but that can happen only if pools are easily and readily accessible.

In my region, there are currently plans to replace the immensely popular Perth pool, with its fun elements including flumes, rapids and an outdoor area, with a new pool in Thimblerow, but that proposal will downgrade the existing pool to one that is much smaller and far more basic. It would not even include on-site parking in the middle of Perth, which suggests either a total absence from reality on the part of the planners involved or that they simply do not care whether the facility is actually used.

In order to keep the current level of swimming provision available, a sizeable financial effort and reallocation of resources will be required, but I believe that that will be an investment well made. I urge the Scottish Government to consider the potential preventative spend that facilities such as swimming pools provide, and to look at its own strategy on health, with which the current rate of pool closures is not compatible. The Scottish Government was persuaded to have a change of heart on outdoor education, and I hope that it will be persuaded in the same way on swimming.

Most importantly, the public overwhelmingly want pools to remain open, and we are all in the chamber today to represent their views. I continue whole-heartedly to support petition PE2018 and I call on the Scottish Government to act on Scottish Swimming’s calls for sustainable financial investment.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-20185, in the name of Jackson Carlaw, and lodged on behalf of the Citizen Participation and Public Petiti...
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con) Con
How exciting it is, on the first day back, to be able to bring this debate to the chamber. I begin by introducing petition PE2018, which was lodged by Helen ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray) SNP
While I acknowledge the point that Mr Carlaw narrates on behalf of COSLA, does he accept that last year’s budget gave a real-terms increase to local governme...
Jackson Carlaw Con
The point that COSLA and others made to us is that, with so many different areas being—appropriately—ring fenced, the capacity for discretionary action by co...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) SNP
Jackson Carlaw mentioned pool closures. I am sure that he will be encouraged to learn that the Alloa Leisure Bowl—if he ever saw it, he would realise how ina...
Jackson Carlaw Con
I have to say to Mr Brown that that was not part of the extensive evidence that the committee heard. All who gave evidence talked of the pressures on funding...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
The committee convener makes a powerful point about life saving, particularly in an educational context—teaching children the confidence to swim not just in ...
Jackson Carlaw Con
That was very much the view that the committee took and is taken by some councils—albeit increasingly fewer, because of the pressures and considerations that...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude.
Jackson Carlaw Con
They demand a clear plan for the whole of Scotland and action to implement such a plan. In the absence of support, swimming pools across the country will fi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I advise members that we are already running a little behind schedule, so I will have to keep members to their speaking time allocations. 16:35
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray) SNP
I acknowledge the motion that has been lodged, and I thank Jackson Carlaw, the committee convener, for setting out his case with his usual rhetorical flouris...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
The cabinet secretary has said that swimming saves health and social care money and promotes wellbeing. However, Jedburgh and Selkirk pools are being shut an...
Neil Gray SNP
We have passed over significant Barnett consequentials, as I set out in my intervention on Mr Carlaw, in an increase to local government funding, which I wil...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Colleagues across the chamber are well aware that I have been a very strong advocate for the aims outlined in the petition for a very long time. I very much ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Neil Bibby—up to five minutes, please. 16:48
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
A happy new year to you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and to everyone across the chamber. Scottish Labour very much welcomes the debate, and I thank Jackson Ca...
Neil Gray SNP
Will the member give way?
Neil Bibby Lab
The cabinet secretary can point to the last financial year, but his Government had £5 billion extra from the Labour UK Government, so he could hardly have cu...
Neil Gray SNP
Will the member give way?
Neil Bibby Lab
I am limited for time, cabinet secretary. It is not just about that £5 billion extra. As I told the petitions committee last year, when the Scottish Governm...
Neil Gray SNP
Will the member give way?
Neil Bibby Lab
I will give way if it is brief. I am limited for time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Briefly, cabinet secretary.
Neil Gray SNP
We just heard from Mr Carlaw about evidence from COSLA on the need to ensure that we do not have restrictive ring fencing of funding. I have just set out the...
Neil Bibby Lab
I do not know whether the cabinet secretary was listening before I took his intervention. I just said that, last year, you had £5 billion extra from the Labo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Please speak through the chair.
Neil Bibby Lab
It is harder for people to access swimming pools and lessons just now because, for years, the Scottish Government has made it harder for councils to fund the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Before I call the next speaker, I advise members that we already have a later decision time. We are quite far behind the allocated time for this debate, so m...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I thank the committee for the work that it has done and, of course, the petitioners for raising the issue. I will mention two particular pools and two par...