Committee
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee 11 November 2025
11 Nov 2025 · S6 · Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Item of business
Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I will be speaking to a number of Jackie Baillie’s amendments today, and I ask members to bear with me as they hear more than they might have expected to hear from me.
At last week’s meeting, we heard the concern that, although we can examine what is in the bill, what will be enacted and put into effect will be a matter of practice and of professional conduct. That is why training is so important both to how the bill operates at the start, should it be passed by Parliament, and to how it continues to operate as it evolves over time. It is important to ensure that the bill makes adequate provision both for the training that will be required by the professionals we will ask to make the most sensitive of judgments, and, critically, for the oversight of that training.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Our third agenda item is day 2 of stage 2 proceedings on the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill. I welcome to the meeting Liam McArthur...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
Good morning. I start with a declaration of interests and remind the committee that I receive support from three separate campaign organisations—Dignity in D...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
If a similar amendment was brought back at stage 3 and it included the co-ordinating practitioner and the independent practitioner, would the member support it?
Liam McArthur
LD
There is an issue with the amendment not referring to both roles. However, my principal concern is about how appropriate it would be to put that level of det...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
I understand the concerns around that. However, most of those things are very important. The member will know that, if something is not in legislation, it be...
Liam McArthur
LD
The issues that are highlighted in the amendment are extremely important and they will be crucial in relation to the assessments that are made of particular ...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
In this group, I will address two sets of amendments—three of the amendments deal with capacity, and two deal with practicalities. I will therefore address t...
The Convener
SNP
I call Daniel Johnson to speak on behalf of Jackie Baillie to amendment 66 and other amendments in the group.
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
I will be speaking to a number of Jackie Baillie’s amendments today, and I ask members to bear with me as they hear more than they might have expected to hea...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
I declare my interest as a practising general practitioner in the national health service. It will be for the medical profession to deal with implementing t...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
Those points are well made, but we must be clear about what amendment 66 would do and, critically, where it comes from. Jackie Baillie’s amendments were draf...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Amendment 225 would make provision about training for medical practitioners who are providing assistance. It specifies that medical practitioners must undert...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
SNP
Ms Duncan-Glancy is making a powerful case. Better training for the practitioner who takes someone who is seeking assisted dying through the process is, of c...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Both would be required. There are amendments in later groups—including amendments in my name and, I think, in the member’s name—that would cover that. Amendm...
Sandesh Gulhane
Con
I want everyone to live their best life. I want people with disabilities to live their best life. Your amendments seek to get people with disabilities in fro...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
The member is right, which is why we should be legislating to make it easier to choose to live than to choose to die. We have a bill in front of us that is n...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
I welcome Liam McArthur’s offer to engage in developing amendments. I restate that I am undecided about my position at stage 3. In considering all amendments...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
SNP
I am wondering about the potential for there to be a lot of missing context should the second medical practitioner not have access to the original notes. Wou...
Brian Whittle
Con
For absolute clarity, up to the point of a declaration that the patient wished to seek assisted dying, all the notes would be readily available. Once the ass...
The Convener
SNP
I have concerns about what Brian Whittle is proposing, given that, after the first declaration, there might be a change in a patient’s clinical circumstances...
Brian Whittle
Con
My overriding concern is that, if we are asking two independent medical practitioners to make a consideration, they must be able to come to the same conclusi...
Sandesh Gulhane
Con
I, too, want to focus on the notes aspect. I have a couple of questions. First, are you saying that only the notes of the first person who has made their ass...
Brian Whittle
Con
I thank Sandesh Gulhane for his intervention. As it comes from the perspective of a medical professional, it is really helpful. To clarify, my response to hi...
Liam McArthur
LD
I thank all colleagues for their contributions. To touch on the points that Brian Whittle has just made, I certainly understand his intent. However, for reas...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
I am grateful for your reflections on those points. Do you acknowledge that the amendments that have come from the professional bodies themselves reflect a n...
Liam McArthur
LD
I take that point entirely. Those representations have facilitated the debate around the issues that need to be picked up in training. However, I question wh...
Sandesh Gulhane
Con
I just want to clarify that the law does not give ministers, either at Westminster or here, powers over postgraduate training. That is deferred to the GMC an...
Liam McArthur
LD
I thank Sandesh Gulhane for making that point and I agree with him. I welcome Bob Doris’s intervention, because he shone a light on the interplay between th...
Elena Whitham
SNP
I have a lot of sympathy with Jackie Baillie’s amendments, not least those related to domestic abuse, given that I used to work for Scottish Women’s Aid. How...
Liam McArthur
LD
That is a helpful issue to raise, and that is why we need the training requirement to be developed by those who are operating in the area. There will be area...