Committee
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee 04 November 2025
04 Nov 2025 · S6 · Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Item of business
Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I start by saying that this is not assisted suicide. This is assisted dying, as the bill puts it, but Mr Balfour has called it assisted suicide multiple times. That is a way of being very emotive, but I do not think that it is correct.
If somebody is diagnosed with motor neurone disease, we do not know what stage they are diagnosed at. They could be diagnosed at a critically horrible stage where they are struggling to breathe and it is a late diagnosis. Day 2 of that diagnosis is very different from day 2 of a diagnosis that is made when they are right at the start of the journey.
It is important that we, as parliamentarians, do not tell the people what meaningful life is.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Clare Haughey)
SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the 29th meeting in 2025 of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. I have received apologies from Paul Sweeney, and Jackie...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 143, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, is grouped with amendments 4, 144, 24, 73, 26 and 84.
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Ind)
Ind
Good morning, convener, members of the committee and other members. Thank you for having us at the meeting to discuss some very important amendments. I will ...
The Convener
SNP
I point out to the committee that, due to pre-emption, if amendment 143 is agreed to, I cannot call amendments 4 and 144, and, if amendment 26 is agreed to, ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
At the outset, I state that I broadly agree with much of what Jeremy Balfour has set out. To my mind, the debate has been marked by two substantial features ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
Good morning, convener. I thank all members who have lodged amendments to the bill at stage 2. The breadth of the amendments will allow most of the substanti...
Jeremy Balfour
Ind
To some extent, amendment 143 is a probing amendment. Does the member recognise that, in the social security legislation that the Parliament passed in the pr...
Liam McArthur
LD
I thank Jeremy Balfour for that, and for clarification that amendment 143 is more of a probing amendment. As I say, it is important that we have this discuss...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
Will the member accept my point that, in principle, rather than necessarily establishing an accurate prognosis, setting a time limit is about trying to set a...
Liam McArthur
LD
As I say, other jurisdictions operate using prognostic periods and issues appear to be manageable within that context. Nevertheless, the argument is about es...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I am listening carefully to the points that are being made. The point in amendment 24 about a person not being terminally ill only because they are disabled ...
Liam McArthur
LD
I do not happen to agree with that. As I go through and respond to the amendments, the rationale for that might become clearer. Amendments 143 and 144 offe...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam McArthur
LD
I am going to make a little more progress, Ms Duncan-Glancy. Adding terms such as “substantially slowed down” is likely only to add to confusion. Although...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
Amendments 73 and 84—amendment 84 is consequential—are to make it clear that a person is not considered terminally ill solely because they have a mental diso...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
I declare an interest as a practising national health service general practitioner and chair of the medical advisory group on the bill. I would like to sa...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
I understand Sandesh Gulhane’s background in the area, so I know that he will be aware of all the significant research that shows that non-disabled people’s ...
Sandesh Gulhane
Con
Pam Duncan-Glancy has the opportunity to lodge an amendment that says that people with disabilities cannot access assisted dying. I would not support such an...
Jeremy Balfour
Ind
I am interested to explore that a wee bit, because the member is saying that someone could say, “My life is no longer meaningful because I have been diagnose...
Sandesh Gulhane
Con
I start by saying that this is not assisted suicide. This is assisted dying, as the bill puts it, but Mr Balfour has called it assisted suicide multiple time...
Liam McArthur
LD
I think that Sandesh Gulhane is right to point to the importance of autonomy, but does he also agree that the safeguards in the bill would require discussion...
Sandesh Gulhane
Con
I agree with that—I would go as far as saying that that was literally the next thing that I was going to say. I absolutely agree with everything that has jus...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
First, I have a brief comment on Liam McArthur and Jackie Baillie’s amendments. I agree with Liam McArthur that the meaning that is captured in the amendment...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
I understand the member’s point—you do not lodge an amendment that proposes a time boundary without thinking about such things. On the other hand, the princi...
Patrick Harvie
Green
The most important thing that we should bear in mind is that that is how people are overwhelmingly likely to use the right to seek assistance. The idea that ...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
SNP
From the outset, my position is that I support Liam McArthur’s amendment 24, because it will allow us to put in place some more safeguards around the definit...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
I recognise the member’s commitment to and support for the bill. If there was no time limit, what would be the difference between a person living as a disabl...
Elena Whitham
SNP
We have heard from Liam McArthur about the differences. I agree that people who are terminally ill will, by definition, probably be considered to be disabled...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
SNP
Elena Whitham said that she is not minded to support a six-month prognosis at this stage but indicated that, as the debate goes on, she could be persuaded ot...
The Convener
SNP
I call Jeremy Balfour to wind up. I remind members that, if amendment 143 is agreed to, I cannot call amendments 4 and 144, due to pre-emption.